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why do dev release games like these

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dennis941012

Feb 14, 2013 2:16 am GMT
they must know that it will fail miserably @_@
why not wait pour more effort into it and release a better product?
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gandonking

Feb 14, 2013 4:06 am GMT
Games are ran by banks nowadays, that's why. We have ran into the dark ages of the industry. Expect nothing new or great for a decade.
pouthestampede

Feb 14, 2013 5:15 am GMT
Publisher deadlines. The publisher contractually has the right to sue the dev if they don't deliver on time. Dev looks at potential of lost money due to low sales or reputation damage and compares it to how much they're liable for per the contract and decides whether to release the game in its current state or not.
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TheJCBand

Feb 14, 2013 12:22 pm GMT
Ok new question: Why is this the final product when the deadline was 6 years after the announcement?
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julbull73

Feb 14, 2013 12:40 pm GMT
gandonking posted...
Games are ran by banks nowadays, that's why. We have ran into the dark ages of the industry. Expect nothing new or great for a decade.

Yeah we are in the dark ages of gaming.

That's why there's all these great games to play, because we are in the dark ages of gaming.

That's why we have more graphic processing power and ability to model physics than ever before. Because we are in the dark ages of gaming.

That's why games are starting to be seen akin to movies and literature as an artform and not as "kid" things. Because we are in the dark ages of gaming.

FFS, take your nostalgia glasses of for friggin' second or play some games that are out there. Suggestions (off the top of my head without actually looking up GOTY nominees):

The Witcher 1 or 2.
Portal 1 or 2.
Xcom: Enemy Unkown.
Skyrim (if you like open world RPG's)
Left 4 Dead 2 (it comes with 1 basically. )
The Mass Effect series.
Dragon Age: Origins
Red Dead Revolver/Redemption

If you want to limit yourself to it's just Call of Duty. Then yes, we are in a dark age. However the dark is due to your own eyelids and the age is the length of time it takes you to open your eyes.

Because in whatever gilded age you speak of before the dark ages there were never any bad games with a lot of hype.
Mastadi

Feb 14, 2013 1:03 pm GMT
julbull73 posted...
gandonking posted...
Games are ran by banks nowadays, that's why. We have ran into the dark ages of the industry. Expect nothing new or great for a decade.

Yeah we are in the dark ages of gaming.

That's why there's all these great games to play, because we are in the dark ages of gaming.

That's why we have more graphic processing power and ability to model physics than ever before. Because we are in the dark ages of gaming.

That's why games are starting to be seen akin to movies and literature as an artform and not as "kid" things. Because we are in the dark ages of gaming.

FFS, take your nostalgia glasses of for friggin' second or play some games that are out there. Suggestions (off the top of my head without actually looking up GOTY nominees):

The Witcher 1 or 2.
Portal 1 or 2.
Xcom: Enemy Unkown.
Skyrim (if you like open world RPG's)
Left 4 Dead 2 (it comes with 1 basically. )
The Mass Effect series.
Dragon Age: Origins
Red Dead Revolver/Redemption

If you want to limit yourself to it's just Call of Duty. Then yes, we are in a dark age. However the dark is due to your own eyelids and the age is the length of time it takes you to open your eyes.

Because in whatever gilded age you speak of before the dark ages there were never any bad games with a lot of hype.

You cannot really argue that there aren't bad things happening to the gaming industry as a whole which negatively affect most gamers.

The industry is trying to attract more and more players, which leads to dumbing down of many games to make them more accessible.

The processing power you speak of is barely ever utilised close to full potential, thanks to outdated consoles being the primary target market.

And sure, we are still getting great games, and will likely keep getting them as long as video games exist as a medium. The issue is though, games are becoming more and more costly to make, forcing developers and publishers to cut corners and utilise non-customer friendly practices in order to maximise profits.

The potential for this to be the golden age of gaming is there. Sadly, it is only really golden for the companies behind.
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I would use a nude male mod with equipable underwear just so I can enchant a pair of magical boxers. - Nexus_Nocturnal.
Relen222

Feb 14, 2013 1:27 pm GMT
Eventually the market will find a balance. Some people love Scorsese, others want family friendly Disney films. The industry will find a way to accomodate both. I'm not sure I agree that games are "dumbing down"--less complex in some ways? Sure. But It's not always a bad thing. Less time spent finding a quest objective is a good thing in my book, as it allows more time to do other things. It can go badly however--not allowing gamers to pick their own race in Dragon Age 2 was a step back in my opinion. So it depends on the kind of change.

Ultimately, games are about fun. Despite the dlc nonsense and pumped-out sequels, I've never had as much fun with games as I've had in the last generation. The SNES/PSOne era comes close...but it was limited by the technology of the time. There was no way we could have had the kind of open-world games like Sleeping Dogs or Skyrim then. The developers of that era did the best they could with what they had.

It's hard to see in the moment but I think we will look back on this era as a sort of golden gaming era. Even the PS3 vs. XBOX 360 rivalry reminds me of the Genesis vs. Nintendo arguments of the late 80s and 90s.
julbull73

Feb 14, 2013 2:24 pm GMT

You cannot really argue that there aren't bad things happening to the gaming industry as a whole which negatively affect most gamers.

The industry is trying to attract more and more players, which leads to dumbing down of many games to make them more accessible.

The processing power you speak of is barely ever utilised close to full potential, thanks to outdated consoles being the primary target market.

And sure, we are still getting great games, and will likely keep getting them as long as video games exist as a medium. The issue is though, games are becoming more and more costly to make, forcing developers and publishers to cut corners and utilise non-customer friendly practices in order to maximise profits.

The potential for this to be the golden age of gaming is there. Sadly, it is only really golden for the companies behind.

I can and do argue that all eras of gaming had bad things happening. What is happening now is closer to a renaissance than the dark ages. (If we're going to stick to historical era metaphors. )

How are games getting dumbed down? When aged gamers like ourselves speak of dumbed down games, we normally reference games where the challenge was in overcoming the massively inferior controls. The cheap, abusive, and in most cases "cheating" AI. Or the horrible response and unforgiving designs.That's not dumbed down or lower skill, that's hiding a technological gap by saying it's a difficulty setting and ironically was a money making technique. Making games cheap meant more quarters during gaming's infancy.

But just sticking to FPS's even the "golden" age of FPS's (doom, duke nukem, RoTT) the skill level equated to the following, hold strafe and fire. Compare that to today's FPS's where strafing, verticle movement, positioning, sight flashing, sprint toggling, cover use, and others all come in to play.

Even in story driven games, the stories haven't changed. That's the problem that is most often brought up and is correct. So to say the story/plots are being dumbed down is ridiculous. The only thing that's actually happened is that people now recognize the contrived plots for what they are. It's like watching your favorite 80's cartoon and realizing the plots were just silly. Go watch He-man/She-ra or Gi Joe and tell me they are amazing as when you first saw them.

Further, an expanding market is a good thing. A larger market allows for companies to take bigger risks and for innovators to get bigger rewards when they succeed. This is called progress and this has existed since the 80's first brought gaming into the main stream.

It's clear you put on a PC elitist hat, excluding consoles as "outdated" despite the fact that consoles are still mid level PC's and play even the most power hungry PC games on medium or medium/high. Doesn't make them outdated, that makes them current.

On top of that, some of the best games I've ever played and are considered as "hall of fame" games are or started as console exclusives! Uncharted series, Gears of War, Mass Effect series, Battletoads, most of the Nintendo first party games.

I'm sorry if you are blinded by the few poor games that are released so that you don't see the others that are true works of art.

Even gaming as a whole is now seen as a hobby and common. Compared to gamers being social outcast prior. Gaming is alive, healthy, and well, it's hardly in a dark age.
Mastadi

Feb 14, 2013 3:07 pm GMT
julbull73 posted...
How are games getting dumbed down?

It's not just the controls and difficulty. The games do become easier as a direct result of this, but that's not an issue - that's what difficulty levels were invented for, so that players of all skill levels can have an enjoyable experience.

And just because there's more actions you can do in an FPS doesn't make it harder. The main issue with modern FPS' games that I personally have is the movement, or rather the limitations imposed on it. Compare even an arcade shooter like CoD with something like Quake. Combat involves a lot less movement, and is reduced to merely means of moving from one place to another. It honestly feels to me like a shooting gallery with some freedom of movement than a proper FPS game. In the older games, dodging and preventing the enemy from actually setting their sights on you was an integral part of combat, but it's nearly useless in most modern games due to the slowing down of player's speed.

As for the stories of games, I don't have issue with what they are - both older and newer games have their good and bad ones, the truly interesting ones and the cheesy ones just put there to serve as a reason to kill more baddies. I do, however, have an issue when a game which should have a decent story and quality writing doesn't. Consider Skyrim, for instance. The characters are simply boring and flat. Even compared to Oblivion, they lack personality, and the quests aren't as nearly fleshed out as the ones from previous games, especially the various guilds.

Further, an expanding market is a good thing. A larger market allows for companies to take bigger risks and for innovators to get bigger rewards when they succeed. This is called progress and this has existed since the 80's first brought gaming into the main stream.

The people who are willing to buy 'risky' games are those who already were gamers to begin with. People who are only starting to game are more likely to stick to well established franchises and simple casual games.

It's clear you put on a PC elitist hat, excluding consoles as "outdated" despite the fact that consoles are still mid level PC's and play even the most power hungry PC games on medium or medium/high. Doesn't make them outdated, that makes them current.

Hardware wise, no. The consoles are vastly outperformed by an average gaming PC. We just don't get to see that power utilised often for reasons I mentioned before. Going back to Skyrim, consider the graphical mods made by fans using a somewhat limiting engine. If devs focused on PC in terms of graphics first, we'd be seeing a lot more beautiful PC games.

On top of that, some of the best games I've ever played and are considered as "hall of fame" games are or started as console exclusives!

I don't have an issue with consoles, What I do have issue with, however, is devs limiting themselves to an outdated hardware for some unknown reason.

I'm sorry if you are blinded by the few poor games that are released so that you don't see the others that are true works of art.

Even gaming as a whole is now seen as a hobby and common. Compared to gamers being social outcast prior. Gaming is alive, healthy, and well, it's hardly in a dark age.

I'm not saying that gaming is in a bad state. There are brilliant games being released which we couldn't dream of even a couple years back. However, that doesn't mean that all is good within the industry. There are major issues which the developers and publishers benefit from at the cost of the player.
Madelle

Feb 14, 2013 3:11 pm GMT
pouTHEstampede posted...
Publisher deadlines. The publisher contractually has the right to sue the dev if they don't deliver on time. Dev looks at potential of lost money due to low sales or reputation damage and compares it to how much they're liable for per the contract and decides whether to release the game in its current state or not.

In this case, I think Sega had afforded Gearbox more than enough time throughout 6 years of development and continual delays. At this point I doubt the game will even turn a profit.
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julbull73

Feb 15, 2013 11:11 am GMT

I'm not saying that gaming is in a bad state. There are brilliant games being released which we couldn't dream of even a couple years back. However, that doesn't mean that all is good within the industry. There are major issues which the developers and publishers benefit from at the cost of the player.

And on this I agree. But it's hardly the cataclysmic dark ages you compared it to.

It was nice having a civil chat for once.
LanceFlugerman

Feb 15, 2013 2:43 pm GMT
gandonking posted...
Games are ran by banks nowadays, that's why. We have ran into the dark ages of the industry. Expect nothing new or great for a decade.

Very true. Even with the fusion centers collecting our online gaming trends all these companies can do is spit out clones of clones of clones. I haven't really seen a "new" game in about 2 console generations.
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julbull73

Feb 15, 2013 3:16 pm GMT
LanceFlugerman posted...
gandonking posted...
Games are ran by banks nowadays, that's why. We have ran into the dark ages of the industry. Expect nothing new or great for a decade.

Very true. Even with the fusion centers collecting our online gaming trends all these companies can do is spit out clones of clones of clones. I haven't really seen a "new" game in about 2 console generations.

Really? You haven't seen anything since SNES days?

You also realize that what you claim the are cloning game post the time stamp you put down right?
Rocketdot

Feb 16, 2013 12:06 am GMT
We're in the dark ages of everything. We have been for thousands of years. The awakening hasn't come and won't come for some time.
KeroroGunsou

Feb 16, 2013 1:39 am GMT
actually if you look back and gearbox's game list they are not that far from such 'quality', i see bordelands, brothes in arms and duke nukem forever as similar medocre crap.
but with this game i got pretty sad because aliens franchise deserves much better and people really were anticipating the game after the e3 demo
LordPoncho

Feb 16, 2013 2:24 am GMT
KeroroGunsou posted...
actually if you look back and gearbox's game list they are not that far from such 'quality', i see bordelands, brothes in arms and duke nukem forever as similar medocre crap.
but with this game i got pretty sad because aliens franchise deserves much better and people really were anticipating the game after the e3 demo

The only thing you consider "mediocre" that is widely agreed upon is DNF. And that can't be attributed to Gearbox as they didn't touch the content of the game, just merely did some bug fixing.
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Mastadi

Feb 16, 2013 6:12 am GMT
LordPoncho posted...
KeroroGunsou posted...
actually if you look back and gearbox's game list they are not that far from such 'quality', i see bordelands, brothes in arms and duke nukem forever as similar medocre crap.
but with this game i got pretty sad because aliens franchise deserves much better and people really were anticipating the game after the e3 demo

The only thing you consider "mediocre" that is widely agreed upon is DNF. And that can't be attributed to Gearbox as they didn't touch the content of the game, just merely did some bug fixing.

The thing with borderlands is that mechanically, it's very poor. The only reason people like it, other than the somewhat interesting world, is because it feels the niche of an open world shooter with co-op. It might do it poorly, but it's the only one out there, so there's not that much to compare it to.
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I would use a nude male mod with equipable underwear just so I can enchant a pair of magical boxers. - Nexus_Nocturnal.
LordPoncho

Feb 16, 2013 7:20 am GMT
Mastadi posted...
LordPoncho posted...
KeroroGunsou posted...
actually if you look back and gearbox's game list they are not that far from such 'quality', i see bordelands, brothes in arms and duke nukem forever as similar medocre crap.
but with this game i got pretty sad because aliens franchise deserves much better and people really were anticipating the game after the e3 demo

The only thing you consider "mediocre" that is widely agreed upon is DNF. And that can't be attributed to Gearbox as they didn't touch the content of the game, just merely did some bug fixing.

The thing with borderlands is that mechanically, it's very poor. The only reason people like it, other than the somewhat interesting world, is because it feels the niche of an open world shooter with co-op. It might do it poorly, but it's the only one out there, so there's not that much to compare it to.

I've never heard someone say it's mechanics are done poorly. Stop projecting your opinion as the widely accepted one.
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"lol der was a shdow on my carpet but ti looked like a stane and tried to clen it up but ti was a shadoow" -Ghost4800
Edavy89

Feb 16, 2013 7:29 am GMT
Mastadi posted...
julbull73 posted...
gandonking posted...
Games are ran by banks nowadays, that's why. We have ran into the dark ages of the industry. Expect nothing new or great for a decade.

Yeah we are in the dark ages of gaming.

That's why there's all these great games to play, because we are in the dark ages of gaming.

That's why we have more graphic processing power and ability to model physics than ever before. Because we are in the dark ages of gaming.

That's why games are starting to be seen akin to movies and literature as an artform and not as "kid" things. Because we are in the dark ages of gaming.

FFS, take your nostalgia glasses of for friggin' second or play some games that are out there. Suggestions (off the top of my head without actually looking up GOTY nominees):

The Witcher 1 or 2.
Portal 1 or 2.
Xcom: Enemy Unkown.
Skyrim (if you like open world RPG's)
Left 4 Dead 2 (it comes with 1 basically. )
The Mass Effect series.
Dragon Age: Origins
Red Dead Revolver/Redemption

If you want to limit yourself to it's just Call of Duty. Then yes, we are in a dark age. However the dark is due to your own eyelids and the age is the length of time it takes you to open your eyes.

Because in whatever gilded age you speak of before the dark ages there were never any bad games with a lot of hype.

You cannot really argue that there aren't bad things happening to the gaming industry as a whole which negatively affect most gamers.

The industry is trying to attract more and more players, which leads to dumbing down of many games to make them more accessible.

The processing power you speak of is barely ever utilised close to full potential, thanks to outdated consoles being the primary target market.

And sure, we are still getting great games, and will likely keep getting them as long as video games exist as a medium. The issue is though, games are becoming more and more costly to make, forcing developers and publishers to cut corners and utilise non-customer friendly practices in order to maximise profits.

The potential for this to be the golden age of gaming is there. Sadly, it is only really golden for the companies behind.

The Witcher 1 or 2.- One was decent, loved 2.
Portal 1 or 2.- Everyone else loved these games, i was utterly unimpressed.
Xcom: Enemy Unkown.- never played it.
Skyrim (if you like open world RPG's)- A perfect example of how technology doesn't make a game. The entire elders scrolls franchise has gone downhill since marrowind.
Left 4 Dead 2 (it comes with 1 basically. )- Didn't like it.
The Mass Effect series.- Probably my favorite series of all time.
Dragon Age: Origins- pretty good.
Red Dead Revolver/Redemption- Redemption was complete garbage.
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creepjack

Feb 16, 2013 7:35 am GMT
LMFAO, wow. No one except you thinks the mechanics in Borderlands is poor. Its very solid as a shooter.If anything, the Borderlands series is widely considered one of the best new franchises of this generation. A somewhat similar game with what I would consider poor mechanics would be Fallout 3. The "shooter" element in that is so poor, you have to use the VAT system to succeed.