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So is this another "God is Evil" game?
So is this another "God is Evil" game?
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- Nov 2, 2012 1:39 am GMT[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
- Nov 2, 2012 11:07 am GMTFrom: Emperor_Gestahl | #020
'Turn the other cheek' is actually an insult. Back in the day, you would never defile yourself by touching ones enemy - especially with your right hand (food hand). To keep from getting the enemy's 'kooties' you would backhand the individual with your left hand. The left hand was only used for bathroom tasks. You would not want the palm of your left hand defiled because you would eventually use it to touch your ass and that would get their kooties up your ass. Who know what might happen then. So if someone backhands you and you taunt them by 'turning the other cheek', they would either have to hit you with their left palm or right backhand. Either situation would defile your enemy in their eyes, so it would be an insult to them. Jesus wasn't being nice, he was teaching how to be passively-aggressively insulting.
So only smacks and the like existed back then? Making a fist to punch, kicks, elbow jabs, hand chops, etc didn't exist? Very odd...
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- Nov 6, 2012 12:26 am GMTZHolyMadman posted...
Shad0wDance posted...
No, but they'll do that irritating "self-righteous by turning the other cheek superiority complex" thing.
Sorry if it irritates you, really, but while some definitely do it to be perceived in a certain light, it's not intended to be an act of self-righteousness, but rather of Christ-likeness (Luke 6:27-36). Not out of a false sense of superiority, but an inner humbleness that comes from the knowledge that ALL are sinners in need of a Savior and no one is better than anybody else. Please don't lump the "real" Christians in with the "fake" ones.If heaven and hell are anything like Christians believe, when the day comes heaven will be full of well-intentioned Atheists and hell will be full of "repentant' Christians.
Um... no. Let me help you out:
Christians - real ones, not posers - believe (and it's worth noting that belief entails practice of said belief, not blatant hypocrisy as is often cited by athiests/agnostics) that only those who confess Jesus Christ as Savior & Lord and believe so in their hearts (Romans 10:9-11) will be saved because He is the ONLY way by which ANYONE can inherit Heaven (John 14:6). Consequently, only those who are truly Christ's own will be with Him for all eternity, while the phonies, athiests (well intentioned or not), and everyone else who deny Who/What Jesus Christ is will inherit Hell. I hope that's not you when the time comes.Not sure what's worse, a religion (cult) that explicitly endorses violence against non-believers or a well-meaning religion that just gets interpreted to **** by idiot people. I don't think Atheists have anything against Christ or Christianity, it's "Christians" that everybody hates.
Believe it or not, I think the latter is worse. No question that killing those who don't believe what you believe is wrong and downright EVIL, but misinterpretation of the Gospel message (that all human beings are with sin and thus in need of a Savior from from it's consequence, death, and that God became flesh in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, who was tortured and crucified as the substitutionary atonement for all mankind and raised from the dead/ascended into Heaven that all who believe on Him would inherit the eternal life He's secured for them - that's the short version) has lead and is leading countless souls away from God and into Hell. It really boils down to temporal vs. eternal. But I'm glad you realize that there is actual misinterpretation occuring - the implication being that you realize there is a correct, "legitimate" interpretation. It's a rampant plague that seriously needs to be stopped.
And I don't know how someone can hate "Christians" without hating their faith or their God, but thanks for not hating our faith and our God, I guess.
I'm not looking to start a debate, and I don't lump real Christians with fake ones, I just don't have the energy to find a diamond hidden among 10,000 rhinestones. You come across as genuine and not one of the posers, but you're still quoting man influenced scriptures that can be interpreted in a multitude of ways, who's to say yours is correct? My general belief is most people propagating their own beliefs are doing it for reasons not related to the beliefs themselves. Faith should be down to a personal relationship with God if one chooses to believe.
P.S Genuine as you may be, you're guilty of the greatest fallacy possible by saying that well-intentioned [anybody] have no place in heaven if they don't accept Christ into their lives. Just another stipulation from a book edited by men.
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I spread conflict and enmity everywhere I go, who am I? - Nov 6, 2012 12:27 am GMTEmperor_Gestahl posted...
ZHolyMadman posted...
Shad0wDance posted...
No, but they'll do that irritating "self-righteous by turning the other cheek superiority complex" thing.
Sorry if it irritates you, really, but while some definitely do it to be perceived in a certain light, it's not intended to be an act of self-righteousness, but rather of Christ-likeness (Luke 6:27-36). Not out of a false sense of superiority, but an inner humbleness that comes from the knowledge that ALL are sinners in need of a Savior and no one is better than anybody else. Please don't lump the "real" Christians in with the "fake" ones.
'Turn the other cheek' is actually an insult. Back in the day, you would never defile yourself by touching ones enemy - especially with your right hand (food hand). To keep from getting the enemy's 'kooties' you would backhand the individual with your left hand. The left hand was only used for bathroom tasks. You would not want the palm of your left hand defiled because you would eventually use it to touch your ass and that would get their kooties up your ass. Who know what might happen then. So if someone backhands you and you taunt them by 'turning the other cheek', they would either have to hit you with their left palm or right backhand. Either situation would defile your enemy in their eyes, so it would be an insult to them. Jesus wasn't being nice, he was teaching how to be passively-aggressively insulting.
Bad troll attempt is bad.
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I spread conflict and enmity everywhere I go, who am I? - Nov 6, 2012 11:36 am GMTAldath posted...
Yomigaeru posted...
I wouldn't even consider Darksiders a "God is Evil" game. While it does make use of Biblical references, it's not a straight telling of anything in the Bible. It references a Creator, but that may not necessarily mean the omnipotent God of Christian faith.
Now MegaTen, on the other hand, has several games in which it "pokes the hornet's nest". God has been portrayed as an egomaniacal tyrant, and in one of the games the player commits the "ultimate sin" and "kills" Him. Of course, the series is notorious for getting religious watchdog groups up in arms...because apparently it's okay to demonize every faith on the planet except the "Western" ones (Christianity and Catholicism).
Well, I haven't seen other faiths getting "demonized" on the Megami Tensei saga as their Gods still hold powers beyond imaginable and fulfill their traditional role. I haven't seen games lately where the christian God holds a similar role of being good and powerful, except Castlevania, and I THINK LoS 2 will break that as it's becoming really trendy to portray Him as a villian.
Anyone has played Shadow Hearts before, for example?
I just hope Castlevania, one of my favorite games ever, won't dissapoint me...
Thor nukes japan Christianity was not the only religion to be demonized in smt just to correct you
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Shin Megami Tensei Imagine us version name maelxich
Shin Megami Tensei Imagine Japanese version name maelxich - Nov 12, 2012 10:30 pm GMTShad0wDance posted...
I'm not looking to start a debate, and I don't lump real Christians with fake ones, I just don't have the energy to find a diamond hidden among 10,000 rhinestones. You come across as genuine and not one of the posers, but you're still quoting man influenced scriptures that can be interpreted in a multitude of ways, who's to say yours is correct? My general belief is most people propagating their own beliefs are doing it for reasons not related to the beliefs themselves. Faith should be down to a personal relationship with God if one chooses to believe.
P.S Genuine as you may be, you're guilty of the greatest fallacy possible by saying that well-intentioned [anybody] have no place in heaven if they don't accept Christ into their lives. Just another stipulation from a book edited by men.
1) Sorry for taking so long with my responses.
2) THANK YOU for being someone who's actually willing to talk intelligently about these matters. I can't tell you how sick I am of people just ignorantly (and often illegibly) blasting Christianity/Christians, unwilling (or unable) to give a reason as to why they feel the need to attack and have no defense of their own position.
3) You said you're not looking to start a debate, and I'll respect that. I will, however, tell you that I can give a defense for the influence, interpretation and canonization ("editing", you called it) of the Scripture that I would hope to be a sufficient argument that the Holy Bible is, in fact, the Word of God, if - and only if - you're interested in hearing it. Not gonna shove it down your throat.
4) I know what I just said, but I have to address your "P.S." - Every world religion or faith (with the notable exception of Universalism, which is actually an amalgamation of various faiths/religions/beliefs, which is a true fallacy, as I'll point out in a second) that I've studied contains at least one tenant or teaching of exclusivity in it's primary text. Every single one. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and many, many more ALL claim that their particular way is the ONLY way to God/Heaven/Life hereafter/whatever.
You call my belief of exclusivity "the greatest fallacy possible"? Cool, I'm totally fine with that, but what makes your own individually inspired belief any less fallacious? Ultimately, it boils down to me pointing to my Holy Book, you pointing to whatever you point to, and we stalemate. The only reasonable way to reach a conclusion (assuming one can be reached) is to provide a basis for the validity of the statement. Another thing I'd be willing to discuss if you're interested.
5) I wonder how many things will be in L.O.S. 2 that will trigger the memory of this conversation? Good times.
Man, I'm looking forward to this game...
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"It's not a logical fallacy, it's postmodern thinking."
"Yeah, the funny thing is, we're BOTH right." - Nov 26, 2012 9:38 am GMTIn response to:
3) : You can give other people's views as your evidence, not irrefutable fact. I'll admit that what evidence there is might be completely true, but there's little way to know for sure. I'll concede the canon is by and large justified in its contents though.
4) : I'm aware, which is why they're all flawed. The Mayans and Egyptians probably would have claimed exclusivity too, if we're to assume one major "religion" actually is exclusive that would imply all the others are wrong. It's the height of arrogance for someone to deny the possibility that whatever religion/faith they subscribe to doesn't have the possibility of being wrong. My own personal belief isn't fallacious because I don't think it has any more chance of being correct than anyone else's, at the end of the day faith is just spiritual roulette and I'm placing my bet on what feels right personally.
I'm not concerned with validity, though Christianity is probably closest to being "right", although I doubt it. We'll all find out when the day comes, until then I'll live a decent life and treat people well. If I happen to be judged by a deity who begrudges me a little doubt then I don't want to live in his house for all eternity in any case. The moment "belief>behaviour" I'm no longer interested.
Good chat though, like Ghandi said: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.Your Christians are so unlike your Christ". Sadly, not many Christians think like you do.
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I spread conflict and enmity everywhere I go, who am I? - Dec 10, 2012 1:31 pm GMTAs a believer myself, I was actually very well pleased with how Lords of Shadow portrayed Christianity. Not once did they really bash it in my eyes, but actually they did the opposite.
At the end when you're fighting Satan (or Zobek/Death I can't remember it's been awhile), I got goosebumps and wet eyes when Gabriel argued in favor of the Gospel. He also literally says "we just have to accept Him and we will be forgiven." I don't remember the exact words, it's been forever since I beat it. But man that really touched me. To see a video game protagonist go and say something that pro-Christian against the main villain was really something for me.
Now as for Gabriel turning evil, that was never really God's doing in my eyes. He was just cursed by the mirror or mask or whatever it was
And heck, if we do end up seeing Dracula back talking God and blaming him in 2 then it wouldn't be that big of a deal to me. Because Dracula is evil and so his opinions and views shouldn't be taken very seriously. In any case I think having Dracula fighting Satan and the Belmonts at the same time would make for a very interesting story if done right. Like a multi-sided war of epic proportions. Definitely looking forward to this and the 3DS game.
The only really thing that bugged me Christian-wise was the addition of other gods in the mythology of the game. Like Pan, which is a god that has nothing to do with Christianity. I didn't like how they mixed religions like that, especially one that I consider to be true with another that I consider to be false.
But other than that, I think they pretty much praised Christianity with the ending fight alone.
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Brawl FC: 1032-0931-6818 - Dec 12, 2012 5:35 pm GMTIll read the whole thing in a bit, I havnt played darksiders but Bayonetta is not a "God is Evil" game as you put it. Its too bad alot of people viewd it that way because its one of the best games of this generation imo.
Those angles are not christian angles nor is the God. On top of that Bayonetta is not a game to take seriously, its absolutely intentionally ridiculous. Its a completely different universe. As far as darksiders, book of revelations, I dont know how they depict god in that game, but an apocaypse is by no means surprising or out of character. (On top of that you play horsemen of the Apocalypse, so I would assume gods the enemy, but not evil)
To answer you question NO. We never see God, to say he betrays Gabriel or uses him is unjust. We never see God, there may be people who use his name to their advantage, but no hes not evil in this game. Then again he dosent save the day either.
Not trying to bash Christianity or religion in any way. - Dec 13, 2012 4:11 am GMTAldath posted...
Well, I am not a fan of the new Castlevania games and I DO HOPE the reboot ends in LoS2, I LIKE the game, but would like to see it back on it's original timeline and characters, specially the monster and character art style.
However one of the things that made me most uncomfortable with the game is the plot. I mean, as a christian I loved the Castlevania series because well, I didn't felt my religion was being mocked or something, it was like my safe-being area. But now that those "God is dead/evil" games are up to date (Bayonetta, SMT, Darksiders, etc etc.) I was wondering if this game is going the same direction... I mean, I'm STILL gonna buy and SURELY enjoy MoF and LoS2, but ehhh... if that's the direction te plot is going it would be a big dissapointment, at least to me.
well, first: It seems in Darksiders, something like GOD does not exist. The nearest things we have to god are the "makers". and they didn't seem evil to me...
and about LOS: I think LOS showed neither, god being evil, or good or even dead. It seems that they want show us just that god won't interfere into human affairs. Like in reality!
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"KILL ME! LEAVE ME TO DIE IN A POOL OF MY OWN BLOOD!"" - Mitsunari Ishida, Sengoku Basara 3 - Dec 14, 2012 10:05 pm GMTHeh.... Shin Megami Tensei is the best JRPG series today.
In the 1990's, 3 franchises had that honor:
#1: Final Fantasy
#2: Breath of Fire
#3: Genso Suikoden
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".... For I AM "the Dragon", Dracul! I AM "the Prince of Darkness"! THAT!... Is MY vengeance!" - Gabriel Belmont/Dracul - Dec 18, 2012 3:12 pm GMTIf you're willing to believe other religions are a work of fiction or incorrect, then you have to be comfortable with others believing the same of yours. Otherwise, it's hypocritical and double standards, and kinda selfish.
It's entirely normal for a game, or movie, or book, to take old stories and change them up in new ways. Are you comfortable with God of War's bastardization of Greek religions (or any other kind of book or movie that ruin the religion)? What's the difference between that and LoS? (well, I'd say GoW is more offensive to the religion it's "taking a poop on" than LoS)
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PM me if you add me (I won't bite... hard)
3DS: 2148-8150-1379 | Steam:SoaringDive | PSN:SoarDive - Dec 23, 2012 5:36 pm GMTWhat's this, intelligent people calmly having a discussion about religion?! Absurd!
- Jan 8, 2013 4:00 pm GMTI would like to add something here, now im not christian but I do believe and love and light and the universe type of thing and I am sick and tired of all these bas guy or grey area games were you really feel like a bad guy. Now I agree the good guy vs bag guys over done in fhe 80's and 90's but now this grey area evil role thing is getting old and people are blind to it. What people need to realize is that it is not the actual story it is the way that the story is told is what makes it good.
And what ticks me off is there are amazing movies and video games that do not the positive reviews and sales they deserve. Now some argue that making all these grey area area choices are more realistic and that is simply not true in rl there are allot more choices so that in reality is not all that realistic.
Then if a movie does not have over the top crude humor ppl say that movie sucked or if a game is to cartoony or does not have enough gore it also sucks like koa. People are just not as open minded as they claim. While I do not like allot of bad guy games especially games that simulate real life like gta and godfather I can still say they are really good games if they really are. And im not biased I am currently playing darksiders 2 and fine with it. Also look at the new dmc in the demo you learn dante is now part angel and people made way to big of a deal out of it.
I just wish people would try a little hard and we can have more variety in the entertainment history and am I the only one who wonders why there is so much of this in the industry now? I have seen massive change in the last 10 years and it got faster in the last 5 its really fishy how reality shows then other stuff above has dominated the industry.
what - Jan 14, 2013 8:18 pm GMTTo answer the topic, no Lords of Shadow is not a particularly 'god is evil' kind of game. Even the lords of shadow themselves were actually three people so good and so pious that their spirits were allowed to ascend to heaven, with the unforeseen side-effect of leaving their dark sides behind which became evil beings.
As for this game, while Gabriel may well blame god, that's because he's bad now.
For me personally, I'm really hoping Alucard is AT LEAST 50% of the game and the real hero.
I liked the twist ending to number one, but I'm not actually all that interested in playing the villain, I like being the hero. And the idea that The first and (probably) second belmont both became vampires and have been battling throughout history is AWESOME. But I still want good to win. Or maybe have Alucard sacrifice himself to get his father's soul back, allowing Gabriel to be the hero once more for the final confrontation.
That would be cool, but seeing how this is Castlevania, I really think Dracula should be the final battle and have Alucard or another Belmont take him down. - Jan 15, 2013 7:49 am GMTI mean no offense to anyone at all, so don't think I do when I say that if you get offended by anything other than a direct attack at you personally by another human being, you're part of why the world we live in is so screwed up.
- Jan 16, 2013 1:35 am GMTJust to pop in, but nobody needs get high and mighty about SMT and it demonisation of anything. Every mythology is fair game for them. The Christian interpretation of God may be portrayed as an egomaniacal tyrant, but other games in the series feature other deities. Not to mention of course player character repeatedly 'subjugate' multiple deities, to the point that at the end of some games the player character can have major deities of the Egyptian, Hindu, or even Oriental religions as controlled allies.
Not to mention other games in the series represent such things as a Greek deity that exists to end all life, or even a Japanese origin deity with similarly dark intentions.
If anything SMT isn't anti-religion, it's just pro-human. Most of the endings to those games involve messages about humanity standing up for itself and proving its worth in the face of uncaring cosmic beings who treat us like toys.
I digress, this is a religious debate on the internet, and even if people are handling it better than most, I'm not sticking around.
Either way, fiction is fiction. It's only offensive if you wanna get offended by it.
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"I am the Truest Repairman!" - Jan 17, 2013 5:02 pm GMTNo one said anyone was offended we are just pointing out how biased games can be ans I was pointing out the grey and evil areas are getting over done why don't you all read the posts before you assume. Its funny these days people get to judgemental towards other peoples beliefs now it use to be the other way around seriously just chill out atleast there not hurting you they stand up for what they believe in which is kore then what I can say others in this day and age. Also the reason there are so many problems now in society is how people are blindly folloing the mainstream and acting crazy people do not realize we are being divided do not blame peopl for having moral beliefs and the fact this country was founded on christain beliefs saids allot considering where are are today as a society and country im not saying christanity is true im saying morals keep us strong.
- Jan 24, 2013 12:47 am GMTMC_STAAVY posted...
As a believer myself, I was actually very well pleased with how Lords of Shadow portrayed Christianity. Not once did they really bash it in my eyes, but actually they did the opposite.
At the end when you're fighting Satan (or Zobek/Death I can't remember it's been awhile), I got goosebumps and wet eyes when Gabriel argued in favor of the Gospel. He also literally says "we just have to accept Him and we will be forgiven." I don't remember the exact words, it's been forever since I beat it. But man that really touched me. To see a video game protagonist go and say something that pro-Christian against the main villain was really something for me.
Now as for Gabriel turning evil, that was never really God's doing in my eyes. He was just cursed by the mirror or mask or whatever it was
And heck, if we do end up seeing Dracula back talking God and blaming him in 2 then it wouldn't be that big of a deal to me. Because Dracula is evil and so his opinions and views shouldn't be taken very seriously. In any case I think having Dracula fighting Satan and the Belmonts at the same time would make for a very interesting story if done right. Like a multi-sided war of epic proportions. Definitely looking forward to this and the 3DS game.
The only really thing that bugged me Christian-wise was the addition of other gods in the mythology of the game. Like Pan, which is a god that has nothing to do with Christianity. I didn't like how they mixed religions like that, especially one that I consider to be true with another that I consider to be false.
But other than that, I think they pretty much praised Christianity with the ending fight alone.
Go atheist then any religion is just a pretty little story.
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JustDubs no longer exists.... I don't want to live in this world anymore......... - Jan 24, 2013 1:29 pm GMTFrom: XGeass | #039
Go atheist then any religion is just a pretty little story.
Not really, as being an atheist is just another belief.
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So is this another "God is Evil" game?
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2
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- Publisher(s): Konami
- Developer(s): Mercury Steam
- Genre: Action
- Release:
Game Stats
- Game Universe:
- Castlevania: Curse of Darkness (PS2, XBOX),
- Castlevania (N64, PC, C64, NES, AMI),
- Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES),
- Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (X360, PS3),
- Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Reverie (PS3, X360),
- Castlevania: Harmony of Despair (X360, PS3),
- Castlevania Judgment (WII),
- Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (DS),
- Castlevania: The Dracula X Chronicles (PSP),
- Castlevania Double Pack (GBA)
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