Why would Nvidia release a card that performs almost as well as its high-end card but charge only half the price? Demand for the GeForce 8800 GTX wasn't on the decline when Nvidia released the GeForce 8800 GT. In fact, GTX chips were still on allocation, and Nvidia didn't have enough chips to fill customer orders. A company doesn't voluntarily give up hundreds of dollars in profits per unit unless there's a very good reason. Maybe Nvidia figured out that it could make more money by reducing prices and selling more chips. Or maybe AMD spooked Nvidia with rumors of a new line of Radeon GPUs that are half the size of the original Radeon HD 2000 GPUs but just as powerful. Judging by AMD's new ATI Radeon HD 3850 and ATI Radeon HD 3870 graphics processors, we're leaning toward the latter.
The new ATI Radeon HD 3870 and 3850 GPUs are based on an updated Radeon HD 2900 XT design. Both GPUs have all the features first introduced in the Radeon HD 2000 series, including DirectX 10 support, integrated HDMI, a hardware tessellation unit, and a 512-bit internal ring bus. The new chips have the same number of stream processors as the Radeon HD 2900 XT, but are only half the size thanks to a smaller 55nm manufacturing process. The manufacturing improvements will let AMD reduce prices considerably from the Radeon HD 2900 XT's current $399 asking price. AMD aims to have the ATI Radeon HD 3870 512MB available in retail at $219 and the ATI Radeon HD 3850 256MB at $179.
Mouse over each image caption to change images.
You may have noticed that the new Radeon GPUs don't have the usual Pro, XT, or XTX designations. ATI Radeon models will now use the last two digits of the model number to indicate the GPU variant instead of using the old Pro and XT monikers. If it makes things easier, you can think of the Radeon HD 3870 as the XT and the Radeon HD 3850 as the Pro.
The more powerful Radeon HD 3870 has a dual-slot cooler, whereas the Radeon HD 3850 requires only a single slot. You can combine two Radeon HD 3870 or 3850 cards in a traditional dual-card CrossFire system configuration, but the cards also have support for AMD's upcoming multi-GPU CrossFireX platform that can support two, three, or four video cards. Both cards will require an external six-pin power connector from the system power supply, which will only need to be 400W-500W for a two-card CrossFire setup and considerably less for a single card. Hybrid car drivers and other green-minded individuals will appreciate the Radeon HD 3800 line's new ATI PowerPlay feature, which lets the system adjust GPU clocks, memory clocks, and voltages based on GPU activity. The on-the-fly power management will let cards run cooler and quieter with reduced fan speeds when the GPU isn't running any intense 3D applications.
ATI engineers took the opportunity to add future-anticipating DirectX 10.1 and PCI Express 2.0 support into the new chips. Keep in mind that DirectX 10.1 is only an incremental upgrade, so don't expect many game developers to switch over and make all the current DirectX 10 cards obsolete overnight. Both ATI Radeon HD 3800 GPUs also offer full hardware-acceleration support for H.264 and VC-1 high-definition video decoding, which lets the system move all the decoding work from the CPU to the GPU.
Radeon HD 3800 GPU performance should be comparable to the Radeon HD 2900 XT, but frame rates will vary due to clock speed, memory speed, and memory interface differences. The Radeon HD 3870 checks in with a 775MHz engine clock, just slightly ahead of the Radeon HD 2900 XT's 740MHz, whereas the Radeon HD 3850 comes in at 670MHz. The Radeon HD 3870 also has faster 2.25GHz memory compared to the 3850's 1.66GHz and the 2900 XT's 1.65GHz memory. AMD is using two memory suppliers, but all chips will be clocked at standard settings. However, some Radeon HD 3870 and 3850 cards may ship with faster 2.4GHz and 1.8GHz memory chips respectively. Card owners can overclock their cards using the ATI OverDrive utility built into the Catalyst drivers. ATI reduced the memory interface in the new chips from 512-bit to 256-bit, which could be considered a step backward. However, ATI claims that bandwidth demands haven't increased as expected because developers are learning to use compressed textures more often thanks to the console development environment.
| Radeon HD 2900 XT | Radeon HD 3870 | Radeon HD 3850 | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Die Size | 408mm2 | 192mm2 | 192mm2 |
| Manufacturing Process | 80nm | 55nm | 55nm |
| Stream Processors | 320 | 320 | 320 |
| Clock Speed | 740MHz | 775MHz | 670MHz |
| Memory | 512MB | 512MB | 256MB |
| Memory Speed | 1.65GHz | 2.25GHz | 1.66GHz |
| Memory Interface | 512-bit | 256-bit | 256-bit |
| PCI Express | PCI Express x16 | PCI Express 2.0 x16 | PCI Express 2.0 x16 |
| DirectX | DirectX 10 | DirectX 10.1 | DirectX 10.1 |
PC enthusiasts looking for a GeForce 8800 GTX killer will have to wait until January 2008 when the Radeon HD 3870 X2 takes over as AMD's flagship video card. As the X2 label implies, the new Radeon will have two GPUs on a single card.
ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series Performance
(Longer bars indicate better performance)
System Setup: Intel Core 2 X6800, Intel 975XBX2, 2GB Corsair XMS Memory (1GBx2), 160GB Seagate 7200.7 SATA Hard Disk Drive, Windows XP Professional SP2. Graphics Cards: Radeon HD 2900 XT 512MB, Radeon HD 3870 512MB, Radeon HD 3850 256MB, GeForce 8800 GT 512MB, GeForce 8600 GTS 256MB, Graphics Drivers: Nvidia Forceware 169.09 beta, ATI Catalyst 7.10, ATI Catalyst 8.43.1 beta
As expected, the ATI Radeon HD 3870 performs almost exactly like a Radeon HD 2900 XT--very impressive considering that the HD 3870 will sell for nearly half the price of the HD 2900 XT. The GeForce 8800 GT wins all the single-card tests with the exception of BioShock. The results shouldn't be surprising because AMD is pricing both new Radeon cards below the GeForce 8800 GT. We only had a single ATI Radeon HD 3870 card, but we did have two ATI Radeon HD 3850 cards for CrossFire. The single Radeon HD 3850 thrashed its GeForce 8600 GTS counterpart in the sub-$200 competition. Our dual Radeon HD 3850 cards performed well in 3DMark06, BioShock, and Company of Heroes, but we could not get the pair to work properly in World in Conflict and Crysis.
The Radeon HD 3870 512MB looks like a winner in the sub-$225 price category. It's slower than the GeForce 8800 GT 512MB, but it's more affordable and offers a similar performance-per-dollar ratio. Expect the battle for the $200 video-card market to get even more intense as Nvidia prepares to release a more affordable 256MB GeForce 8800 GT. The Radeon HD 3850 might be slower than both the Radeon HD 3870 and the GeForce 8800 GT, but you can't argue with the $179 price, and it crushes the GeForce 8600 GTS, its closest competition in the benchmarks.
We expect pricing to be extremely volatile for all the newly announced cards, the GeForce 8800 GT, ATI Radeon HD 3870, and the ATI Radeon HD 3850, through the end of the year. The new products have generated a lot of consumer interest, and actual retail prices may stay above MSRP until there's enough supply to meet customer demand.
The 2007 holiday season will be remembered as the time when graphics-card manufacturers took turns assaulting eager PC enthusiasts with ridiculously low-priced DirectX 10 video cards. They couldn't have come at a better time because we're going to need that extra graphics power to handle heavy-hitters such as The Orange Box, Call of Duty 4, and Crysis. The new ATI Radeon HD 3800 cards will be available in retail stores and online starting November 15.
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311 Comments
Man nvidia is the best avilable chip maker around which has more potential and worthy.
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i understand why alot of people choose niviia, but i have been with ati for my whole life, and all ask is to do your own research and make up your own minds, dont listen to nividia or ati hpye look at the numbers and the states and make your own minds, remember the world is nothing but smoke and mirrors to get you to buy something,
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I understand now why ATI is prefered than Nvidia more and more
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3970 my next graphic card lol next month im gonna get it i hope it will be good enough
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I, normally, go with nvidia. But price is also a factor. In order to use nvidias 8800 or 9600 GPUs, I'd have to upgrade my power supply first. I currently have a crappy 300W. I'll need a 450W for either 8800 or 9600. They require 425W. But if ATI can run their Radeon 3800s on 300-350W, I may "jump the fence".
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ati>nvidia last gen
nvidia>ati for this gen intersting to see if ati can kill nvidia like the bad FXseries
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I just purchased a Diamond 3850, the Ruby Edition, with 512MB instead of the stock 256MB. I would be interested in an updated benchmark with one of these and the 8800s.
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Looks ok, but still, that 8800 GT is looking juicier.
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Ati win by performance/price.. Love Ati..
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my local computer sales man always knows whats best.
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at the same price as the 8800 gt it is a waste of money.
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not bad, Ati is always gamer's friend .cheap but good
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Good job ATi!. Finaly, back in the game!
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I also think its funny when people say ATI is getting destroyed.You people do understand, ATI's main market has and always will be, integrated chips (i.e. cell phones,motherboards,etc) They have a huge market share that Nvidia has been trying to get for years.
That being said, I plan on picking up the 3870 due to price/performance.
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Wrong, it only has to be the same model. They recomend the same manufacture to avoid issues but it's not necessary.
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This is a mean looking card,long live ati/amd!
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i have the 3870 and its really very good graphic card .i have 4 gb ram and core 2 dual @ 3.00 Ghz and i play crysis on 1280*1024 all set to high and 4x aa = 25-32 fps
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Omg ... I really have to ask ... Mr_P .... you know how big the diffrence is between SLI and Crossfire ? They work entirely diffrent ... And if you use SLI.... You can only run a second (or more) GPU that is from the same manufacture and the same model..... With crossfire ... It only has to be related to it .. example .. you can mix a ATI 3850 with a 3870 ...
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ati and amd is for one ?
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fastpunk: I must agree with you 100%. Ever since AMD bought ATI, ATI went downhill in performance-price ratio. ATI was destroying nVIDIA in all angles but now they can't keep up. If Intel buys nVIDIA, it will be the same fate for nVIDIA.
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GS made a mistake. Under the second picture they wrote Radeon HD3870. Actually, that's the Radeon HD3850. And speaking of the HD3850, it's definitely an excellent choice for the mainstream. But ATI have been leading the performance market in the previous generations (Radeon 9800, X850XT, X1950XTX) and it sucks seeing them not able to compete for the performance crown. AMD should have never bought them, they are destroying ATI.
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Ummm, you guys are fighting over a small increase in performance. Both HD3870 and 8800GT perform well. It just that nVIDIA has the slight upper hand. I don't see this as an a$$whopping. If, for example, Crysis performance of nVIDIA is 45FPS and ATI 25FPS, that's a big difference but it's just only 5FPS. There are more factors than just the hardware itself: drivers, OS, RAM, CPU usage etc. So all the fanboys (I hate that term) please, just give it a rest. I personally am going to buy the HD3870 because of the high performance/price ratio. I already have a X1600 and it's pretty good on Crysis with the Shaders on Medium (Shaders are a big performance drain in this game).
BTW, isn't the HD38xx and the HD2xxx have the PPU processing power such that it takes a load off of the CPU? Please correct me on this. If that's the case, the extra drain of performance can be coming from that area.
Think about it.
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I wouldn't mind upgrading to this. The ATI I have installed still works great, though. I just dont remember what it is O.o
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CRYSIS
ATI 3870--1600x1200 HIGH QUALITY =24fps=STUTTERING
8800GT---1600x1200 HIGH QUALITY=29fps=NO STUTTERING
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hey just checkout CRYSIS--COH---WIC(the cool dx10 titles)-----AND THEN SEE THAT NVIDIAS NUMBERS ARE MUCH HIGHER THAN AMD(phenom dont work proper---thier selling faulty cpu's to people-and those people are foolish enough to buy them)/ATI----I THINK NVIDIA SHOULD TEAM UP WITH INTEL---JUST TO RUB SALT,VINEGAR AND AFTERSHAVE INTO THE WOUNDS
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I have an ALL AMD/ATI Rig with an ASUS M2R32-MVP Crossfire-Ready motherboard, 3GB OCZ RAM, AMD Black Edition 6000+, and Twin 3870's in Crossfire, I have an Antec PSU 900watt and an Antec 900 gaming case. Yea, it's the one with a 200-mm fan (it's like the size of a fan on a small car engine)and (3) 120-mm fans to boot. Pipe cooling is next. I bought this machine one part at a time and asked for other parts for Christmas.This rig is an overclockers dream!!!! It plays Crysis on max settings with MAXIMUM pwnage...for all you cyber athgeeks out there. I tried Nvidia and Intel once.....once.
P.S. AMD/ATI used to spank Nvidia....so I hope all you bandwagoners remember that when ATI/AMD finally gets back on track to the days of old; it will happen all over again.
-True AMD/ATI Fan
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Im really confused, can you use SLI and crossfire on motherboards that don't even SLi ready or Crossfire ready labeled on the box, do they only have to have 2 pci express slots (x16)?
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goose green-now thats what im talking about
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i am not thick marianox1
i know the cards are in the same price range--but like i said in the killer games the 8800 beat the ati's easy
and you are bang on with your synopsis of me and gfx cards
especialy if that few extra frames make a big difference----crysis--wic
oh and like i said where are the 8800gt sli RESULTS?
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mr_p they compare crossfire 3850 vs a 8800gt because THEY ARE IN THE SAME PRICE RANGE
you are an example of a person that would buy a extremely expensive card for just a little more fps
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and one more thing about the review
id hardly call THE ORANGE BOX a graphical heavy hitter
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I've been buying both ATI and Nvidia Cards for years,both have come a far way and really good,But the new HD 3870 Series is damn good for the price,
Read tech reviews from many other pc gaming sites to see what's up,not just one,
For example check here
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/605/13/
FOR THAT PRICE U CAN'T GO WRONG, I HAVE MINE ALREADY ORDERED, CAN'T WAIT FOR IT TO COME.
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MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR!
ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT and ATI Radeon HD 3780 is cool but the ATI Radeon HD 3850 CrossFire (256MBx2) is awesome, very cool, rocks and very good!
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I bought the 3850 for 175 CDN. It's a great card. The drivers and software work without problem. It plays games exceptionally well considering its price point. The best part is that it overclocks very well. I managed to raise the memory speed from 1658 to 2098 (21%), and the GPU speed from 670 to 770 (13%). Thats an average of a 17% increase in performance just from over clocking. These figures put the overclocked 3850 at a performance level similar to the 3870 for only 175 CDN. By far the best graphics card deal out there.
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Merry Christmas Rifkin!
I have Nvidia Geforce 8800 GTS 640, and i can play all latest games at max detail (1440x900) except Crysis.
Yes Even ATI optimized games.
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They crossfired the weaker 3850, of course it would get better performance. But also on the note of 8800GT vs HD 3870, they've tested these cards on Nvidia Optimized games. Why don't they try it on neutral grounds? Also, Nvidia has crap drivers, what good is a fast card if it can't even run the game to begin with. (I have an Nvidia, it sucks, I know, I hate the drivers, going with ATI next)
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I have no friends anyways, so why get a new graphics card at all? What I mean is I'm gonna go crazy and buy that Geforce 9 in early April. No one will appreciate it even for a day, because they are talented. No body will tell me I'm talented. What do they got that I don't got? Those Neon Cherry people are pissing me off, because of their anti-Geforce 8800 ideology. .
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and also dx10.1 support..we cant even run crysis at crazy frame rates yet..why the hell would we jump to a new DX and new hardware..
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These comparisons are absolutely pointless. The 3870's are in crossfire yet no other card is in SLI or anything else. Why would gamespot try to sell an ati card with a cheap trick!?
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aye?...both images showing the HD 3870 units??...confused :/ typo rite?...top is actually 3870...while 2nd is 50 :/
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haaAAmM ...? ATI 3870 has higher core and memory clocks than the 8800gt and same memory, why does it perform worse? I think some games optimized for Nvidia
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Ugh . . . Disgusting. My 8600 GTS gets annihilated by the ATI 3850. Makes me reconsider my purchase, but my Newegg return policy is up.
Anyone know a way besides Ebay to sell a graphics card or trade in your graphics card while paying extra cash for a new one?
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Why aren't all the comparisons done with Xfire? Why not add SLI with 8800? If you're going to include Xfire at all; include it on World in Conflict and Crysis as well. Better still; add 8800 SLI to all games as well. Considering you can get a pair of 3850's for less than the top 8800 GT; this seems like a no-brainer deal. How much does an extra $500 to run 8800 GT's in SLI buy you? I wish this dataset were more complete. This analysis is mediocre at best.
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HD3850 FTW!!
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continue to put out high quality games and it will demand we continue to upgrade our video cards......end result the pc sucks your wallet dry faster than a console release does.....but man is it worth it!!!!!!
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Unreal_007 -"what i dont understand is the ati 3870 has higher core and memory clocks than the 8800gt and the same memory, why does it perform worse?" because they use different GPU's. nvidia make there own GPU and ATI/AMD make there own. It's like comparing a Intel CPU clocked at 2.4ghz and a AMD CPU clocked at 2.4ghz. They have different features. Also I think the drivers have something to do with it.
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yeah most of them lol
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my question are some games optimized for Nvidia?
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