Sign on Options
Theme: [Light Selected] To Dark»
ForumsOff-Topic Discussion › Little child sings anti-g@y song in chur ...

The Classic Off-Topic forum is a place where games or platforms discussions are taboo. Here, you can talk about just about anything outside of games, just make sure to stay classy and follow the rules.

Forum Rules:
- Follow the Terms of Use and read the FAQ.
- Keep your discussions friendly and respectful of others.
- Keep the discussions work friendly. More details in the FAQ (For something more laid back go to Off Topic: After Hours
- Game and platform discussions NOT allowed (For that go to the Primary Games Board or System Wars.
- Do NOT post or bump extremely abusive discussions.
- Hate speech not permitted.

Little child sings anti-g@y song in church

Forum Actions
  • Level 20
    Metal Slime
    Posts: 771
    User is Online
    May 30, 2012 12:46 pm GMT

    DaBrainz wrote:
    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    And people wonder why I hate religion. All it teaches is hatred and violence. It has literally never done anything postive for humanity.

    Ahhh, the smell of fresh bigotry in the afternoon.

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentration camps. The religious right is just the modern face of fascism.

    Edited on May 30, 2012 12:49 pm GMT Edited 3 total times.

    [QUOTE="DaBrainz"][QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    And people wonder why I hate religion. All it teaches is hatred and violence. It has literally never done anything postive for humanity.

    [/QUOTE] Ahhh, the smell of fresh bigotry in the afternoon.[/QUOTE]

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentration camps. The religious right is just the modern face of fascism.

  • Level 29
    Radiant Silvergun
    Posts: 3805
    May 30, 2012 12:48 pm GMT
    Dystopian-X wrote:
    I didn't start anything since I wasn't insulting

    Only an ass assumes, Stever.


    Meh...
    [QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]I didn't start anything since I wasn't insulting

    Only an ass assumes, Stever.

    [/QUOTE] Meh...
  • Level 40
    Abobo
    Posts: 12748
    May 30, 2012 12:50 pm GMT

    toast_burner wrote:

    whipassmt wrote:

    Overall in Western Society, or at least in America, I would say there is too much attention and emphasis on gay issues, from both sides of the issues. It is kinda ridiculous that we often reduce people to being gay or "straight" as if that defines the whole person when it is really just one aspect, or how gay celebrities are expected, maybe even pressured, to come out and declare their gayness before the whole world, or that we have stupid things like "lavender graduations" (honestly why can't they just have the same graduation everyone else does?). And many pastors and preachers focus excessively on condemning homosexual sodomy when they should also mention heterosexual sodomy and realize that sodomy is just one sin among many.

    Also people on both sides need to realize that there are people with homosexual tendencies who are living chaste lives.

    I agree, thats why they should just give gays equel rights and get it over with.

    "equal rights" is a rather vague claim. It rather depends on the specific right. The Congregation for The Doctrine of the Faith would agree that homosexuals should have some "equal rights" : "persons who are struggling with homosexuality no less than any others have the right to receive the authentic teaching of the Church from those who minister". http://www.doctrinafidei.va/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19990531_gramick-nugent-notification_en.html

    Education is the most interesting and difficult adventure in life. Educating - from the Latin educere - means leading young people to move beyond themselves and introducing them to reality, towards a fullness that leads to growth. This process is fostered by the encounter of two freedoms, that of adults and that of the young. It calls for responsibility on the part of the learners, who must be open to being led to the knowledge of reality, and on the part of educators, who must be ready to give of themselves. For this reason, today more than ever we need authentic witnesses, and not simply people who parcel out rules and facts; we need witnesses capable of seeing farther than others because their life is so much broader. A witness is someone who first lives the life that he proposes to others.

    - Benedict XVI, Message for the World Day of Peace 2012

    [QUOTE="toast_burner"]

    [QUOTE="whipassmt"]

    Overall in Western Society, or at least in America, I would say there is too much attention and emphasis on gay issues, from both sides of the issues. It is kinda ridiculous that we often reduce people to being gay or "straight" as if that defines the whole person when it is really just one aspect, or how gay celebrities are expected, maybe even pressured, to come out and declare their gayness before the whole world, or that we have stupid things like "lavender graduations" (honestly why can't they just have the same graduation everyone else does?). And many pastors and preachers focus excessively on condemning homosexual sodomy when they should also mention heterosexual sodomy and realize that sodomy is just one sin among many.

    Also people on both sides need to realize that there are people with homosexual tendencies who are living chaste lives.

    [/QUOTE]I agree, thats why they should just give gays equel rights and get it over with.

    [/QUOTE] "equal rights" is a rather vague claim. It rather depends on the specific right. The Congregation for The Doctrine of the Faith would agree that homosexuals should have some "equal rights" : "persons who are struggling with homosexuality no less than any others have the right to receive the authentic teaching of the Church from those who minister". http://www.doctrinafidei.va/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19990531_gramick-nugent-notification_en.html

  • Level 33
    Goombella
    Posts: 2772
    User is Online
    May 30, 2012 12:50 pm GMT
    cute kid.
    cute kid.
  • Level 45
    Mishima Zaibatsu
    Posts: 6777
    User is Online
    May 30, 2012 12:51 pm GMT
    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    DaBrainz wrote:
    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    And people wonder why I hate religion. All it teaches is hatred and violence. It has literally never done anything postive for humanity.

    Ahhh, the smell of fresh bigotry in the afternoon.

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentrations camps.



    Those Nazi Republican g*yhaters! ROFLMFAO
    [QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    [QUOTE="DaBrainz"][QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    And people wonder why I hate religion. All it teaches is hatred and violence. It has literally never done anything postive for humanity.

    [/QUOTE] Ahhh, the smell of fresh bigotry in the afternoon.[/QUOTE]

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentrations camps.

    [/QUOTE] Those Nazi Republican g*yhaters! ROFLMFAO
  • Level 29
    Radiant Silvergun
    Posts: 3805
    May 30, 2012 12:51 pm GMT
    whipassmt wrote:
    persons who are struggling with homosexuality

    Yes, struggling with society's treatment of them. And people like the parents of this kid aren't helping one bit.
    [QUOTE="whipassmt"]persons who are struggling with homosexuality[/QUOTE] Yes, struggling with society's treatment of them. And people like the parents of this kid aren't helping one bit.
  • Level 72
    King of All Cosmos
    Posts: 19464
    May 30, 2012 12:52 pm GMT

    whipassmt wrote:

    toast_burner wrote:

    whipassmt wrote:

    Overall in Western Society, or at least in America, I would say there is too much attention and emphasis on gay issues, from both sides of the issues. It is kinda ridiculous that we often reduce people to being gay or "straight" as if that defines the whole person when it is really just one aspect, or how gay celebrities are expected, maybe even pressured, to come out and declare their gayness before the whole world, or that we have stupid things like "lavender graduations" (honestly why can't they just have the same graduation everyone else does?). And many pastors and preachers focus excessively on condemning homosexual sodomy when they should also mention heterosexual sodomy and realize that sodomy is just one sin among many.

    Also people on both sides need to realize that there are people with homosexual tendencies who are living chaste lives.

    I agree, thats why they should just give gays equel rights and get it over with.

    "equal rights" is a rather vague claim. It rather depends on the specific right. The Congregation for The Doctrine of the Faith would agree that homosexuals should have some "equal rights" : "persons who are struggling with homosexuality no less than any others have the right to receive the authentic teaching of the Church from those who minister". http://www.doctrinafidei.va/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19990531_gramick-nugent-notification_en.html

    By equel rights I mean being able to do everything straights can do (e.g get married) and not be treated any different.

    Also i find your use of the word "struggling" to be incredibly offensive. The only struggle of being gay is facing homophobia, which people like you and that church teach.

    Edited on May 30, 2012 12:53 pm GMT

    [QUOTE="whipassmt"]

    [QUOTE="toast_burner"]

    [QUOTE="whipassmt"]

    Overall in Western Society, or at least in America, I would say there is too much attention and emphasis on gay issues, from both sides of the issues. It is kinda ridiculous that we often reduce people to being gay or "straight" as if that defines the whole person when it is really just one aspect, or how gay celebrities are expected, maybe even pressured, to come out and declare their gayness before the whole world, or that we have stupid things like "lavender graduations" (honestly why can't they just have the same graduation everyone else does?). And many pastors and preachers focus excessively on condemning homosexual sodomy when they should also mention heterosexual sodomy and realize that sodomy is just one sin among many.

    Also people on both sides need to realize that there are people with homosexual tendencies who are living chaste lives.

    [/QUOTE]I agree, thats why they should just give gays equel rights and get it over with.

    [/QUOTE] "equal rights" is a rather vague claim. It rather depends on the specific right. The Congregation for The Doctrine of the Faith would agree that homosexuals should have some "equal rights" : "persons who are struggling with homosexuality no less than any others have the right to receive the authentic teaching of the Church from those who minister". http://www.doctrinafidei.va/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19990531_gramick-nugent-notification_en.html

    [/QUOTE]By equel rights I mean being able to do everything straights can do (e.g get married) and not be treated any different.

    Also i find your use of the word "struggling" to be incredibly offensive. The only struggle of being gay is facing homophobia, which people like you and that church teach.

  • Level 20
    Metal Slime
    Posts: 771
    User is Online
    May 30, 2012 12:52 pm GMT

    DaBrainz wrote:
    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    DaBrainz wrote:
    Ahhh, the smell of fresh bigotry in the afternoon.

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentrations camps.

    Those Nazi Republican g*yhaters! ROFLMFAO

    Republican ideology is virtually identical to Nazi ideology. People in this country just don't know anything about history. Republicans are fascists.

    :

    1.Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

    2.Disdain for the importance of human rights.The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

    3.Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people?s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice?relentless propaganda and disinformation?were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite ?spontaneous? acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and ?terrorists.? Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

    4.The supremacy of the military/avid militarism.Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

    5.Rampant sexism.Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

    6.A controlled mass media.Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes? excesses.

    7.Obsession with national security.Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting ?national security,? and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

    8.Religion and ruling elite tied together.Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite?s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the ?godless.? A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

    9.Power of corporations protected.Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of ?have-not? citizens.

    10.Power of labor suppressed or eliminated.Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

    11.Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

    12.Obsession with crime and punishment.Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. ?Normal? and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or ?traitors? was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

    13.Rampant cronyism and corruption.Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

    14.Fraudulent elections.Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

    Edited on May 30, 2012 12:53 pm GMT

    [QUOTE="DaBrainz"][QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    [QUOTE="DaBrainz"] Ahhh, the smell of fresh bigotry in the afternoon.[/QUOTE]

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentrations camps.

    [/QUOTE] Those Nazi Republican g*yhaters! ROFLMFAO[/QUOTE]

    Republican ideology is virtually identical to Nazi ideology. People in this country just don't know anything about history. Republicans are fascists.

    [quote]

    1.Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

    2.Disdain for the importance of human rights.The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

    3.Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people?s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice?relentless propaganda and disinformation?were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite ?spontaneous? acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and ?terrorists.? Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

    4.The supremacy of the military/avid militarism.Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

    5.Rampant sexism.Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

    6.A controlled mass media.Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes? excesses.

    7.Obsession with national security.Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting ?national security,? and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

    8.Religion and ruling elite tied together.Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite?s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the ?godless.? A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

    9.Power of corporations protected.Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of ?have-not? citizens.

    10.Power of labor suppressed or eliminated.Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

    11.Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

    12.Obsession with crime and punishment.Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. ?Normal? and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or ?traitors? was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

    13.Rampant cronyism and corruption.Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

    14.Fraudulent elections.Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite. [/quote]

  • Level 40
    Abobo
    Posts: 12748
    May 30, 2012 12:52 pm GMT

    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    DaBrainz wrote:
    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    And people wonder why I hate religion. All it teaches is hatred and violence. It has literally never done anything postive for humanity.

    Ahhh, the smell of fresh bigotry in the afternoon.

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentration camps. The religious right is just the modern face of fascism.

    Nazis also put religious people including Christians and Jews in Concentration camps. If anyone today is like the fascists it it probably the Communists. And not all religions teach people to hate or be violent, you shouldn't stereotype all Christianity or all religion based on this one kid and his family.

    Education is the most interesting and difficult adventure in life. Educating - from the Latin educere - means leading young people to move beyond themselves and introducing them to reality, towards a fullness that leads to growth. This process is fostered by the encounter of two freedoms, that of adults and that of the young. It calls for responsibility on the part of the learners, who must be open to being led to the knowledge of reality, and on the part of educators, who must be ready to give of themselves. For this reason, today more than ever we need authentic witnesses, and not simply people who parcel out rules and facts; we need witnesses capable of seeing farther than others because their life is so much broader. A witness is someone who first lives the life that he proposes to others.

    - Benedict XVI, Message for the World Day of Peace 2012

    [QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    [QUOTE="DaBrainz"][QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    And people wonder why I hate religion. All it teaches is hatred and violence. It has literally never done anything postive for humanity.

    [/QUOTE] Ahhh, the smell of fresh bigotry in the afternoon.[/QUOTE]

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentration camps. The religious right is just the modern face of fascism.

    [/QUOTE] Nazis also put religious people including Christians and Jews in Concentration camps. If anyone today is like the fascists it it probably the Communists. And not all religions teach people to hate or be violent, you shouldn't stereotype all Christianity or all religion based on this one kid and his family.

  • Level 40
    Abobo
    Posts: 5809
    May 30, 2012 12:52 pm GMT

    SteverXIII wrote:
    whipassmt wrote:
    persons who are struggling with homosexuality
    Yes, struggling with society's treatment of them. And people like the parents of this kid aren't helping one bit.

    [QUOTE="SteverXIII"][QUOTE="whipassmt"]persons who are struggling with homosexuality[/QUOTE] Yes, struggling with society's treatment of them. And people like the parents of this kid aren't helping one bit.[/QUOTE]

  • Level 46
    Mutoid Man
    Posts: 9520
    May 30, 2012 12:52 pm GMT

    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    DaBrainz wrote:
    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    And people wonder why I hate religion. All it teaches is hatred and violence. It has literally never done anything postive for humanity.

    Ahhh, the smell of fresh bigotry in the afternoon.

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentration camps. The religious right is just the modern face of fascism.

    most religious people couldnt care less....the minority that are very hateful are very vocal and it takes one person to make a whole group look bad. as much as i hate religion......

    Ebony....Ivory....i missed you girls

    [QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    [QUOTE="DaBrainz"][QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    And people wonder why I hate religion. All it teaches is hatred and violence. It has literally never done anything postive for humanity.

    [/QUOTE] Ahhh, the smell of fresh bigotry in the afternoon.[/QUOTE]

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentration camps. The religious right is just the modern face of fascism.

    [/QUOTE]most religious people couldnt care less....the minority that are very hateful are very vocal and it takes one person to make a whole group look bad. as much as i hate religion......

  • Level 20
    Metal Slime
    Posts: 771
    User is Online
    May 30, 2012 12:54 pm GMT

    whipassmt wrote:

    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    DaBrainz wrote:
    Ahhh, the smell of fresh bigotry in the afternoon.

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentration camps. The religious right is just the modern face of fascism.

    Nazis also put religious people including Christians and Jews in Concentration camps. If anyone today is like the fascists it it probably the Communists. And not all religions teach people to hate or be violent, you shouldn't stereotype all Christianity or all religion based on this one kid and his family.

    Republicans would put Muslims into concentration camps if they could.

    [QUOTE="whipassmt"]

    [QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    [QUOTE="DaBrainz"] Ahhh, the smell of fresh bigotry in the afternoon.[/QUOTE]

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentration camps. The religious right is just the modern face of fascism.

    [/QUOTE] Nazis also put religious people including Christians and Jews in Concentration camps. If anyone today is like the fascists it it probably the Communists. And not all religions teach people to hate or be violent, you shouldn't stereotype all Christianity or all religion based on this one kid and his family.

    [/QUOTE]

    Republicans would put Muslims into concentration camps if they could.

  • Level 35
    Stitches
    Posts: 5428
    User is Online
    May 30, 2012 12:54 pm GMT
    toast_burner wrote:

    whipassmt wrote:

    toast_burner wrote:
    I agree, thats why they should just give gays equel rights and get it over with.

    "equal rights" is a rather vague claim. It rather depends on the specific right. The Congregation for The Doctrine of the Faith would agree that homosexuals should have some "equal rights" : "persons who are struggling with homosexuality no less than any others have the right to receive the authentic teaching of the Church from those who minister". http://www.doctrinafidei.va/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19990531_gramick-nugent-notification_en.html

    By equel rights I mean being able to do everything straights can do (e.g get married) and not be treated any different.


    What's the big deal of getting married if you're g@y? Civil unions provide the same service as a marriage? My ignorance wonders why that's not enough.
     photo cosby_zps82ca0a95.gif

    [QUOTE="toast_burner"]

    [QUOTE="whipassmt"]

    [QUOTE="toast_burner"]I agree, thats why they should just give gays equel rights and get it over with.

    [/QUOTE] "equal rights" is a rather vague claim. It rather depends on the specific right. The Congregation for The Doctrine of the Faith would agree that homosexuals should have some "equal rights" : "persons who are struggling with homosexuality no less than any others have the right to receive the authentic teaching of the Church from those who minister". http://www.doctrinafidei.va/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19990531_gramick-nugent-notification_en.html

    [/QUOTE]By equel rights I mean being able to do everything straights can do (e.g get married) and not be treated any different.

    [/QUOTE] What's the big deal of getting married if you're g@y? Civil unions provide the same service as a marriage? My ignorance wonders why that's not enough.
  • Level 45
    Mishima Zaibatsu
    Posts: 6777
    User is Online
    May 30, 2012 12:55 pm GMT
    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    DaBrainz wrote:
    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentrations camps.

    Those Nazi Republican g*yhaters! ROFLMFAO

    Republican ideology is virtually identical to Nazi ideology. People in this country just don't know anything about history. Republicans are fascists.

    :

    1.Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

    2.Disdain for the importance of human rights.The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

    3.Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people?s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice?relentless propaganda and disinformation?were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite ?spontaneous? acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and ?terrorists.? Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

    4.The supremacy of the military/avid militarism.Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

    5.Rampant sexism.Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

    6.A controlled mass media.Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes? excesses.

    7.Obsession with national security.Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting ?national security,? and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

    8.Religion and ruling elite tied together.Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite?s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the ?godless.? A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

    9.Power of corporations protected.Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of ?have-not? citizens.

    10.Power of labor suppressed or eliminated.Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

    11.Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

    12.Obsession with crime and punishment.Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. ?Normal? and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or ?traitors? was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

    13.Rampant cronyism and corruption.Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

    14.Fraudulent elections.Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.



    0/10
    [QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    [QUOTE="DaBrainz"][QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentrations camps.

    [/QUOTE] Those Nazi Republican g*yhaters! ROFLMFAO[/QUOTE]

    Republican ideology is virtually identical to Nazi ideology. People in this country just don't know anything about history. Republicans are fascists.

    [quote]

    1.Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

    2.Disdain for the importance of human rights.The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

    3.Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people?s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice?relentless propaganda and disinformation?were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite ?spontaneous? acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and ?terrorists.? Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

    4.The supremacy of the military/avid militarism.Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

    5.Rampant sexism.Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

    6.A controlled mass media.Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes? excesses.

    7.Obsession with national security.Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting ?national security,? and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

    8.Religion and ruling elite tied together.Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite?s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the ?godless.? A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

    9.Power of corporations protected.Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of ?have-not? citizens.

    10.Power of labor suppressed or eliminated.Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

    11.Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

    12.Obsession with crime and punishment.Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. ?Normal? and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or ?traitors? was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

    13.Rampant cronyism and corruption.Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

    14.Fraudulent elections.Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite. [/quote]

    [/QUOTE] 0/10
  • Level 72
    King of All Cosmos
    Posts: 19464
    May 30, 2012 12:55 pm GMT

    lowkey254 wrote:
    toast_burner wrote:

    whipassmt wrote:
    "equal rights" is a rather vague claim. It rather depends on the specific right. The Congregation for The Doctrine of the Faith would agree that homosexuals should have some "equal rights" : "persons who are struggling with homosexuality no less than any others have the right to receive the authentic teaching of the Church from those who minister". http://www.doctrinafidei.va/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19990531_gramick-nugent-notification_en.html

    By equel rights I mean being able to do everything straights can do (e.g get married) and not be treated any different.

    What's the big deal of getting married if you're g@y? Civil unions provide the same service as a marriage? My ignorance wonders why that's not enough.
    If it was the same then it wouldn't be called something else. Equel but different isn't equel.

    [QUOTE="lowkey254"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]

    [QUOTE="whipassmt"] "equal rights" is a rather vague claim. It rather depends on the specific right. The Congregation for The Doctrine of the Faith would agree that homosexuals should have some "equal rights" : "persons who are struggling with homosexuality no less than any others have the right to receive the authentic teaching of the Church from those who minister". http://www.doctrinafidei.va/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19990531_gramick-nugent-notification_en.html

    [/QUOTE]By equel rights I mean being able to do everything straights can do (e.g get married) and not be treated any different.

    [/QUOTE] What's the big deal of getting married if you're g@y? Civil unions provide the same service as a marriage? My ignorance wonders why that's not enough.[/QUOTE]If it was the same then it wouldn't be called something else. Equel but different isn't equel.

  • Level 46
    Mutoid Man
    Posts: 9520
    May 30, 2012 12:56 pm GMT

    lowkey254 wrote:
    toast_burner wrote:

    whipassmt wrote:
    "equal rights" is a rather vague claim. It rather depends on the specific right. The Congregation for The Doctrine of the Faith would agree that homosexuals should have some "equal rights" : "persons who are struggling with homosexuality no less than any others have the right to receive the authentic teaching of the Church from those who minister". http://www.doctrinafidei.va/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19990531_gramick-nugent-notification_en.html

    By equel rights I mean being able to do everything straights can do (e.g get married) and not be treated any different.

    What's the big deal of getting married if you're g@y? Civil unions provide the same service as a marriage? My ignorance wonders why that's not enough.

    human rights>religious morals

    cause gays are being treated like crap and being discriminated apon for their sexual prefrence,it's BS if we get married we arent hurting anyone

    Ebony....Ivory....i missed you girls

    [QUOTE="lowkey254"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]

    [QUOTE="whipassmt"] "equal rights" is a rather vague claim. It rather depends on the specific right. The Congregation for The Doctrine of the Faith would agree that homosexuals should have some "equal rights" : "persons who are struggling with homosexuality no less than any others have the right to receive the authentic teaching of the Church from those who minister". http://www.doctrinafidei.va/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19990531_gramick-nugent-notification_en.html

    [/QUOTE]By equel rights I mean being able to do everything straights can do (e.g get married) and not be treated any different.

    [/QUOTE] What's the big deal of getting married if you're g@y? Civil unions provide the same service as a marriage? My ignorance wonders why that's not enough.[/QUOTE]

    human rights>religious morals

    cause gays are being treated like crap and being discriminated apon for their sexual prefrence,it's BS if we get married we arent hurting anyone

  • Level 45
    Mishima Zaibatsu
    Posts: 6777
    User is Online
    May 30, 2012 12:56 pm GMT
    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    whipassmt wrote:

    bigfoot2045 wrote:

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentration camps. The religious right is just the modern face of fascism.

    Nazis also put religious people including Christians and Jews in Concentration camps. If anyone today is like the fascists it it probably the Communists. And not all religions teach people to hate or be violent, you shouldn't stereotype all Christianity or all religion based on this one kid and his family.

    Republicans would put Muslims into concentration camps if they could.



    FDR put 110,000 japanese people in concentration camps...
    [QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    [QUOTE="whipassmt"]

    [QUOTE="bigfoot2045"]

    I'm the bigoted one because I don't like something that teaches kids to grow up hating people? That's like saying it's bigoted to hate Nazis.

    And Christians and Republicans aren't too far off from Nazis. Nazis also hated homosexuals for instance, and put them in concentration camps. The religious right is just the modern face of fascism.

    [/QUOTE] Nazis also put religious people including Christians and Jews in Concentration camps. If anyone today is like the fascists it it probably the Communists. And not all religions teach people to hate or be violent, you shouldn't stereotype all Christianity or all religion based on this one kid and his family.

    [/QUOTE]

    Republicans would put Muslims into concentration camps if they could.

    [/QUOTE] FDR put 110,000 japanese people in concentration camps...
  • Level 33
    Goombella
    Posts: 2772
    User is Online
    May 30, 2012 12:56 pm GMT

    almasdeathchild wrote:

    lowkey254 wrote:
    toast_burner wrote:
    By equel rights I mean being able to do everything straights can do (e.g get married) and not be treated any different.

    What's the big deal of getting married if you're g@y? Civil unions provide the same service as a marriage? My ignorance wonders why that's not enough.

    human rights>religious morals

    cause gays are being treated like crap and being discriminated apon for their sexual prefrence,it's BS if we get married we arent hurting anyone

    We? You're gay?

    Edited on May 30, 2012 12:57 pm GMT

    [QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]

    [QUOTE="lowkey254"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]By equel rights I mean being able to do everything straights can do (e.g get married) and not be treated any different.

    [/QUOTE] What's the big deal of getting married if you're g@y? Civil unions provide the same service as a marriage? My ignorance wonders why that's not enough.[/QUOTE]

    human rights>religious morals

    cause gays are being treated like crap and being discriminated apon for their sexual prefrence,it's BS if we get married we arent hurting anyone

    [/QUOTE] We? You're gay?

  • Level 29
    Radiant Silvergun
    Posts: 3805
    May 30, 2012 12:57 pm GMT
    almasdeathchild wrote:
    it's BS if we get married we arent hurting anyone

    ^
    [QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]it's BS if we get married we arent hurting anyone[/QUOTE] ^
  • Level 60
    Master Chief
    Posts: 30026
    May 30, 2012 12:57 pm GMT

    lowkey254 wrote:
    What's the problem? He (read: his family) has a right to their opinion just as the glbt community has a right to their lifestyle.

    And we have the right to strongly oppose that worldview, or to put it more dramatically:

    "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. We should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols."

    [QUOTE="lowkey254"]What's the problem? He (read: his family) has a right to their opinion just as the glbt community has a right to their lifestyle.[/QUOTE]

    And we have the right to strongly oppose that worldview, or to put it more dramatically:

    "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. We should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols."

Forum Actions
ForumsOff-Topic Discussion › Little child sings anti-g@y song in chur ...