[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"] A lot of people don't eat pre-workout in the belief that the body will be more inclined to utilize fat stores for energy, though tbh this is the first time I've read about 'supercompensation'.[/QUOTE]Indeed fat will be utilized, but you will put fat on immediately upon feeding again. Fat stores are constantly filling in and out. It's the net balance that you need to worry about. And regardless of when you workout or eat, it will all settle itself and only when total calories burned exceeds calories ingested will the fat stay off permanently.

[QUOTE="BranKetra"][QUOTE="The_Zoid"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"] I agree, but wouldn't that technically make casein pointless?[/QUOTE]Wouldn't that technically make any powdered form of protein pointless? Tell me....whey's ingestion speed is measured after an overnight fast with nothing else in the stomach....when is that a realistic scenario? Almost always a preworkout meal is ingested beforehand. And it's still digesting long after you finish...so any whey dextrose orgy after the workout has to wait its turn anyway. Even if no preworkout meal is ingested a supercompensatory response will occur upon feeding...which as stated can be up to 24h or perhaps longer.[/QUOTE] I see what you're saying now. It's not so much about getting something right before you sleep as much as having a healthy diet overall. [/QUOTE]Precisely. Fundamental principles>minor details. Supplements will only truly help when everything else is already satisfactory. So what if you took whey if you don't reach your daily protein or calorie needs.

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="The_Zoid"][QUOTE="CptJSparrow"] A lot of people don't eat pre-workout in the belief that the body will be more inclined to utilize fat stores for energy, though tbh this is the first time I've read about 'supercompensation'.[/QUOTE]Indeed fat will be utilized, but you will put fat on immediately upon feeding again. Fat stores are constantly filling in and out. It's the net balance that you need to worry about. And regardless of when you workout or eat, it will all settle itself and only when total calories burned exceeds calories ingested will the fat stay off permanently.[/QUOTE] Yeah a lot of people don't realise that. Where'd you learn all this stuff about absorption, etc?[/QUOTE]Let's see... Lyle McDonald - bodyrecomposition.com Alan Aragon - alanaragonblog.com Martin Berkhan - leangains.com And the bodybuilding.com nutrition section. I like to keep fairly well read on the subject.

Alan Aragon's words are better than mine. [QUOTE="Alan Aragon"] Here, I'll help you........... The postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer. So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results. To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204 More from earlier in the thread: Here's what you're not seeming to grasp: the "windows" for taking advantage of nutrient timing are not little peepholes. They're more like bay windows of a mansion. You're ignoring just how long the anabolic effects are of a typical mixed meal. Depending on the size of a meal, it takes a good 1-2 hours for circulating substrate levels to peak, and it takes a good 3-6 hours (or more) for everythng to drop back down to baseline. You're also ignoring the fact that the anabolic effects of a meal are maxed out at much lower levels than typical meals drive insulin & amino acids up to. Furthermore, you're also ignoring the body's ability of anabolic (& fat-oxidative) supercompensation when forced to work in the absence of fuels. So, metaphorically speaking, our physiology basically has the universe mapped out and you're thinking it needs to be taught addition & subtraction.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Thanks for the posts, Zoid. Research I was looking at seems to be outdated by the much more recent articles you've cited.[/QUOTE]No problem. I'm glad your words are graceful. There are many unwilling to part with their views or see things in a different light.

[QUOTE="Jobesky123"]I drink alot of water. Also, took a dump a couple hours ago and everything was fine. Not sure if it's the protein anymore. Yet again, Zoid, you are an incredibly large depository of information. Thanks. Also also, guy above on page 2 said 150g of protein? I get nowhere near that, even with my food and the twice a day drinks. Sounds like the milk is okay. I'm gonna get some apples soon and see if that helps. Could it just be that my body isn't used to protein in liquid form?[/QUOTE]Protein needs are a hot debate topic. If you don't want to get too specific then don't. Just take your shakes and eat your food and adjust from there based on your results. Estimations are the best we can ever do. Try a probiotic. Or better yet, buy the myofusion brand of protein which now comes with probiotics inside.