[QUOTE="lonewolfman10"]

I agree, that one guy with the prostectic leg competed in the Summer Olympics remember and did very well

[/QUOTE]

That was fine.  They didn't alter the event to accommodate him.  

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

And that won't change precisely because of mindsets like hartsick's.

[/QUOTE] Abject nonsense. The players in the NFL, NBA etc. are the best in the world. The worst player in those leagues is still one of the most elite on the planet. You can find women who can play sports better than most men, but you can't find women who can play at the level of the most elite in the world. There is no evidence for this whatsoever, and the only reason you believe this is PC horsesh*t about equality. Please show one shred of evidence for this that doesn't appeal to something completely unfalsifiable.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying necessarily that women could compete at that level. Maybe some could, maybe not. We'll never know ether way however, because of the cultural mindset that surrounds these sports.

[/QUOTE]

No, we DO know that elite female athletes cannot compete with elite male athletes.  All you have to do is watch a track and field event to know that.  If you deny this, you're either blind or lying to yourself.  

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I'm not saying necessarily that women could compete at that level. Maybe some could, maybe not. We'll never know ether way however, because of the cultural mindset that surrounds these sports.

[/QUOTE] Culture does not emerge from nowhere. The reason that cultural mindset exists is because of biological truths. The best female athletes do not compare to the best male athletes by any objective metric. Group X not performing equally to group Y is not necessarily the result of some cultural idea. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that women could ever play at that level, other than PC appeals to equality. Differences between groups aren't all down to socialization, despite what people want to believe. All the evidence points to a certain conclusion, that conclusion seems pretty reasonable.[/QUOTE] There was previously a cultural mindset that women shouldn't vote. I very much doubt you'd argue that cultural mindset emerged out of a biological truth about women being less competent at politics than men. There is still huge stigma toward women joining sports teams at the lower level and while they are, according to the rules, allowed in to the professional level in the same competition with the men you may notice the stigma toward women in sports is still very much present. To say that the difference in average physique is the sole reason for this culture of the sport is flat out wrong. [/QUOTE]

Even if it's not the "sole reason," it's a good enough reason.  It's the only one needed.  Women can't compete at that level.  If a woman showed up at an NFL training camp and kicked ass, she'd make the team.  It's not going to happen though.  

Even the best WNBA player couldn't compete in the NBA.  Just look at the speed of the game and how physical it is.  This is true to an even greater extent in the NFL.  

I work on construction sites where there are a few women.  Not even the most delusional ones would attempt to do some of the work that I do.  

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] To be successful you have to have been given a chance in the first place. As I said while at the pro level it's generally fair game to play that is not true down the ladder. There's also still a massive stigma that women should play less physical sports which obviously is going to reduce the amount of candidates for the elite. Men do indeed have a natural advantage. However it hasn't even been 100 years since women were allowed to compete at all in most sports and it's only been 40 years since women were actually taken seriously in anyway in sports, even at a low level. I'm not saying I expect teams to be 50/50, that simply won't happen. However if the culture of sports were more accepting of the women who have the potential to compete I think we'd see more trying out for the same level as current elite sports. [/QUOTE] All you're doing is restating your previous non-argument. Every objective metric clearly shows that the most elite male athletes trounce the most elite females. Hell, you don't even have to look at athletes, look at any physically demanding job, and compare male-female performance. There may be some crowding out effect due to culture, but the idea that the effect is enough to keep deserving people out of professional sports leagues is spurious at best. The only way you can argue that professional sports have a glass ceiling for women is if you presuppose the existence of said glass ceiling. There is no reason to believe that elite female athletes will ever be equal to male elites, other than appeals to PC notions of equality. Your argument is essentially saying "In the past women couldn't do X because of cultural limitations. Therefore, anything women currently don't do is also because of culture". There is no evidence for this, it is an assumption that is contradicted by the evidence we have.[/QUOTE] So do you or do you not admit there is a crowding out effect due to the current culture. I don't know if you've misunderstood what is being said here or if you're purposefully trying to move it away from the issue for whatever reason but you're certainly not arguing the same thing Worlock or I are. Also I don't know why you think that what happened in the past is irrelevant to culture. 40 years ago was not long ago at all.[/QUOTE]

Nobody could point at women and say, "See how the vote!  They shouldn't be allowed to.  Clearly they can't do it!"

We can look at female athletes play sports and know that they can not compete with high-level male athletes.  That's why your analogy was so bad.