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When did cutscenes start getting out of hand?
- Jan 29, 2013 8:15 am GMT
I don't mind a few but some games go overboard when trying to create a cinimatic experiance. I play video games for the gameplay not cutscenes and cheesey story. If I want to watch a movie I'll do so keep it out of my games.
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- Jan 29, 2013 8:46 am GMT[QUOTE="o0squishy0o"]
I think there is a alot of ignorance on behalf of gamers on what is possible via "gameplay" to tell a story. A really easy way to demonstrate this by films or TV shows. They give you shots of looking at peoples faces, their reactions, or vista shots of armies marching in so you can see the vastness of it all. With games, such as an FPS, if you are stuck in the head a bit like Half Life 2, the story has extreme limits on what is possible, and even then still relies on taking away some interaction. If you are there being able to shoot a guy in the face but the bullets dont kill him, then it breaks the imersion ever more so; than not being able to fire at all.
The cutscenes allow for better control over the story telling, it lets them display things that gameplay simply could not. Final fantasy for example has some amazing pieces of CGI, you try doing that with the game engine and it will look terrible. I personally think, nice looking CGI tells a story better than game engine or gameplay ever could. Nobody looks at Blizzards gameplay and says "MAKE A FILM!!!!!" they see their CGI ah go "OH MAWH GAWDDDD MAKE DAT FILM!!!". So yeah, without wanting to offend anyone, I think alot of you seem to think that game engines can tell story just as well as well done CGI. I think certain parts of Gears of War would have been less awkward to watch if they used CGI to not make certain people look really bad.
[/QUOTE] that's limiting all of storytelling to only the visual aspect, which is obviously not the only way a story can be told. by that standard, books can't tell a story either. a visual story in a video game will never be as good as a film anyway because films don't need to be interrupted by gameplay. however, films will never tell a truly interactive story like video games can.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Jan 29, 2013 9:17 am GMT
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="o0squishy0o"]
I think there is a alot of ignorance on behalf of gamers on what is possible via "gameplay" to tell a story. A really easy way to demonstrate this by films or TV shows. They give you shots of looking at peoples faces, their reactions, or vista shots of armies marching in so you can see the vastness of it all. With games, such as an FPS, if you are stuck in the head a bit like Half Life 2, the story has extreme limits on what is possible, and even then still relies on taking away some interaction. If you are there being able to shoot a guy in the face but the bullets dont kill him, then it breaks the imersion ever more so; than not being able to fire at all.
The cutscenes allow for better control over the story telling, it lets them display things that gameplay simply could not. Final fantasy for example has some amazing pieces of CGI, you try doing that with the game engine and it will look terrible. I personally think, nice looking CGI tells a story better than game engine or gameplay ever could. Nobody looks at Blizzards gameplay and says "MAKE A FILM!!!!!" they see their CGI ah go "OH MAWH GAWDDDD MAKE DAT FILM!!!". So yeah, without wanting to offend anyone, I think alot of you seem to think that game engines can tell story just as well as well done CGI. I think certain parts of Gears of War would have been less awkward to watch if they used CGI to not make certain people look really bad.
[/QUOTE] that's limiting all of storytelling to only the visual aspect, which is obviously not the only way a story can be told. by that standard, books can't tell a story either. a visual story in a video game will never be as good as a film anyway because films don't need to be interrupted by gameplay. however, films will never tell a truly interactive story like video games can.[/QUOTE]
There is time that stories are told better when it is not interactive. Half-Life 2 was a perfect example of when cut scenes would have been better.
Also, even today video game stories are not that interactive.
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- Jan 29, 2013 9:33 am GMT
"Let's not stand on ceremony here. Mr. Wayne." -Bane
i don't think cutscenes are bad as ling as they tell a good story- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Jan 29, 2013 9:58 am GMT[QUOTE="wiouds"]
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="o0squishy0o"]
I think there is a alot of ignorance on behalf of gamers on what is possible via "gameplay" to tell a story. A really easy way to demonstrate this by films or TV shows. They give you shots of looking at peoples faces, their reactions, or vista shots of armies marching in so you can see the vastness of it all. With games, such as an FPS, if you are stuck in the head a bit like Half Life 2, the story has extreme limits on what is possible, and even then still relies on taking away some interaction. If you are there being able to shoot a guy in the face but the bullets dont kill him, then it breaks the imersion ever more so; than not being able to fire at all.
The cutscenes allow for better control over the story telling, it lets them display things that gameplay simply could not. Final fantasy for example has some amazing pieces of CGI, you try doing that with the game engine and it will look terrible. I personally think, nice looking CGI tells a story better than game engine or gameplay ever could. Nobody looks at Blizzards gameplay and says "MAKE A FILM!!!!!" they see their CGI ah go "OH MAWH GAWDDDD MAKE DAT FILM!!!". So yeah, without wanting to offend anyone, I think alot of you seem to think that game engines can tell story just as well as well done CGI. I think certain parts of Gears of War would have been less awkward to watch if they used CGI to not make certain people look really bad.
[/QUOTE] that's limiting all of storytelling to only the visual aspect, which is obviously not the only way a story can be told. by that standard, books can't tell a story either. a visual story in a video game will never be as good as a film anyway because films don't need to be interrupted by gameplay. however, films will never tell a truly interactive story like video games can.[/QUOTE]
There is time that stories are told better when it is not interactive. Half-Life 2 was a perfect example of when cut scenes would have been better.
Also, even today video game stories are not that interactive.
[/QUOTE] plenty of video game stories are interactive. demon's souls is built around using the player's urge to level up as a way to convey the feeling of an addiction to power while braid uses puzzles to give the feeling of getting stuck and then having a revelation. they're really gamey.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Jan 29, 2013 10:09 am GMT
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="wiouds"]
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"] that's limiting all of storytelling to only the visual aspect, which is obviously not the only way a story can be told. by that standard, books can't tell a story either. a visual story in a video game will never be as good as a film anyway because films don't need to be interrupted by gameplay. however, films will never tell a truly interactive story like video games can.[/QUOTE]
There is time that stories are told better when it is not interactive. Half-Life 2 was a perfect example of when cut scenes would have been better.
Also, even today video game stories are not that interactive.
[/QUOTE] plenty of video game stories are interactive. demon's souls is built around using the player's urge to level up as a way to convey the feeling of an addiction to power while braid uses puzzles to give the feeling of getting stuck and then having a revelation. they're really gamey. [/QUOTE]
Their stories are not interactive. Even the story heavy games like Mass Effect have very little interactive with the story.
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- Jan 29, 2013 10:21 am GMT[QUOTE="wiouds"]
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="wiouds"]
There is time that stories are told better when it is not interactive. Half-Life 2 was a perfect example of when cut scenes would have been better.
Also, even today video game stories are not that interactive.
[/QUOTE] plenty of video game stories are interactive. demon's souls is built around using the player's urge to level up as a way to convey the feeling of an addiction to power while braid uses puzzles to give the feeling of getting stuck and then having a revelation. they're really gamey. [/QUOTE]
Their stories are not interactive.
[/QUOTE] this is like having a conversation with a toddler. stop having fits and defend your point.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Jan 29, 2013 10:30 am GMT
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="wiouds"]
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"] plenty of video game stories are interactive. demon's souls is built around using the player's urge to level up as a way to convey the feeling of an addiction to power while braid uses puzzles to give the feeling of getting stuck and then having a revelation. they're really gamey. [/QUOTE]
Their stories are not interactive.
[/QUOTE] this is like having a conversation with a toddler. stop having fits and defend your point. [/QUOTE]
I am not the one taking game play and say that to use that show the story of the game is interactive.
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- Jan 29, 2013 10:38 am GMT[QUOTE="wiouds"]
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="wiouds"]
Their stories are not interactive.
[/QUOTE] this is like having a conversation with a toddler. stop having fits and defend your point. [/QUOTE]
I am not the one taking game play and say that to use that show the story of the game is interactive.
[/QUOTE] those stories are about the themes explored in the gameplay. demon's souls is about the characters' addiction to power and braid is a game about reflection. there's no other way to show that a story is interactive than to use gameplay. gameplay is interactivity.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Jan 29, 2013 10:43 am GMT
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="wiouds"]
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"] this is like having a conversation with a toddler. stop having fits and defend your point. [/QUOTE]
I am not the one taking game play and say that to use that show the story of the game is interactive.
[/QUOTE] those stories are about the themes explored in the gameplay. demon's souls is about the characters' addiction to power and braid is a game about reflection. there's no other way to show that a story is interactive than to use gameplay. gameplay is interactivity.[/QUOTE]
I do not concider that game play as part of the story's plot. There are many things you can not do for the story during the game play. I have yet to see anyone get across key plot points during the game play it self.
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- Jan 29, 2013 11:10 am GMT
XBL ID: Run DAZ
PSN ID: Run_DAZ
Zip it up, your fanboy is hangin'out.
I'd say when CD Rom became available, I used to love 'em back then. Now I still watch them, the thrill is gone though.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Jan 29, 2013 12:38 pm GMT[QUOTE="wiouds"]
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="wiouds"]
I am not the one taking game play and say that to use that show the story of the game is interactive.
[/QUOTE] those stories are about the themes explored in the gameplay. demon's souls is about the characters' addiction to power and braid is a game about reflection. there's no other way to show that a story is interactive than to use gameplay. gameplay is interactivity.[/QUOTE]
I do not concider that game play as part of the story's plot. There are many things you can not do for the story during the game play. I have yet to see anyone get across key plot points during the game play it self.
[/QUOTE]so you either haven't played any games that use interactivity for storytelling or simply refuse to acknowledge their existence. that's not much of an argument.
stories are about more than a series of events. they need character, worlds, and motivation. the plot points of demon's souls would fall apart if there was no urge to level up. if the pursuit of power is so dangerous, why not just stop? it's because power is addicting. and even then, games can still convey key plot points as well. go play braid. there's a part at the end where the player character must "rescue the princess." i won't spoil it, but it's definitely the biggest plot point of the game and it's not a cut-scene.
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- Jan 29, 2013 1:03 pm GMT
I think part of it is that they're dumbing games down.
They think we're stupid and therefor incapable of digesting a story or plot, unless the entire game stops and "OK PRESS X TO SEE SOMETHING COOL"
They could easily incorporate plot thru NPC interaction, while not interrupting the gameplay. And it's the player's choice if they want to stop and listen to the conversation or push on down the hall.
But that would require IQ above 78 on the part of the player, to actually stop and listen.
I think ultimately what people are hungry for is to be able to play an FPS for an hour without having control jerked out of your hands every 5 minutes.
I personally found ME3 enraging, seriously I wanted to find a developer and beat them over the head with my controller. You can't even go down a 20 foot hallway without the game ripping the controller out of your hand. By the end of it I just wanted to hit somebody for ruining what could have potentially been a great experience. Thanks for wasting my life you cutscene monkies.
I'm actually very hopeful for next gen consoles to have enough RAM to not have to use cutscenes as a crutch, they could actually tell the whole story thru gameplay.
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- Jan 29, 2013 1:06 pm GMT
[QUOTE="wiouds"]
I do not concider that game play as part of the story's plot.
[/QUOTE]
That's what video games ARE.
That's why they're called video games, you're not watching the story you're PLAYING the story.
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- Jan 29, 2013 1:59 pm GMT
[QUOTE="ZombieKiller7"]They could easily incorporate plot thru NPC interaction, while not interrupting the gameplay. And it's the player's choice if they want to stop and listen to the conversation or push on down the hall.But that would require IQ above 78 on the part of the player, to actually stop and listen.[/QUOTE] Well, see, that's the thing. It seems that more often these days, developers actually ARE trying to tell a story or make some kind of point. And just like with film, it's the director's job to get that point across. If you allow the player to completely mess up the events of the story, then you've sort of failed to get your point across. And at that point, you can use a cutscene or incorporate the plot through NPC interaction, but it's basically the same thing. Either way, that's still restricting the player's freedom for the sake of telling the story.
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- Jan 29, 2013 4:23 pm GMT
Seems like a very divided issue so far...
My take: I have a very love/hate relationship with them. I think intros and endings are best when done with cutscenes. When done right, they can build suspense, as in the case of an intro, or resolution as with an ending scene. Blizzard has been referenced a couple of times, and that is fitting because they do an amazing job with their CGI. I have never once thought that they specifically should tone it down. However, when you look at something like Final Fantasy XIII, i think you can see the difference for yourself. Cutscene after cutscene after cutscene interspersed with minimal gameplay... frankly, it gets annoying.
As for storytelling, it is simple to do via gameplay. How did games like the original Final Fantasy or the original Metal Gear (NES) tell a story without them? There was very limited use of cutscenes, if any, in early games like these, so why are they praised like they are for having such good stories? Because they were able to do so without the cutscenes and CGI that modern games flaunt like excess cleavage.
Much like cleavage, it can be tastefully done, but when it crosses a certain line, you are just a slut.
Edited on Jan 29, 2013 4:24 pm GMTSeems like a very divided issue so far...
My take: I have a very love/hate relationship with them. I think intros and endings are best when done with cutscenes. When done right, they can build suspense, as in the case of an intro, or resolution as with an ending scene. Blizzard has been referenced a couple of times, and that is fitting because they do an amazing job with their CGI. I have never once thought that they specifically should tone it down. However, when you look at something like Final Fantasy XIII, i think you can see the difference for yourself. Cutscene after cutscene after cutscene interspersed with minimal gameplay... frankly, it gets annoying.
As for storytelling, it is simple to do via gameplay. How did games like the original Final Fantasy or the original Metal Gear (NES) tell a story without them? There was very limited use of cutscenes, if any, in early games like these, so why are they praised like they are for having such good stories? Because they were able to do so without the cutscenes and CGI that modern games flaunt like excess cleavage.
Much like cleavage, it can be tastefully done, but when it crosses a certain line, you are just a slut. :cool:
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- Jan 29, 2013 6:29 pm GMT
PSN ID: skilllz_datkillz
Xbox Live: masculinemummy
[QUOTE="ZombieKiller7"][QUOTE="wiouds"]
I do not concider that game play as part of the story's plot.
[/QUOTE]
That's what video games ARE.
That's why they're called video games, you're not watching the story you're PLAYING the story.
[/QUOTE] Whats wrong with a small amount of cutscenes? Absolutely nothing, some games use cutscenes brilliantly. Such as The Walking Dead, Infamous, Mass Effect 2, etc. The list of games that use cutscenes right, is a lot shorter than the ones that use them wrong.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Jan 29, 2013 7:05 pm GMT[QUOTE="wiouds"]There is time that stories are told better when it is not interactive. Half-Life 2 was a perfect example of when cut scenes would have been better.[/QUOTE] HL2 is widely regarded as a sublime game because of how it treats the player. You underestimate the impact of leaving the player in control of a situation as events unfold. Take an example in HL2: Episode 1. When underground in the dark, Alyx makes a zombie sound from behind, you turn around gun ready and she laughs at you. A cut scene will struggle to reproduce that.
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- Jan 29, 2013 7:26 pm GMT[QUOTE="nutcrackr"][QUOTE="wiouds"]There is time that stories are told better when it is not interactive. Half-Life 2 was a perfect example of when cut scenes would have been better.[/QUOTE] HL2 is widely regarded as a sublime game because of how it treats the player. You underestimate the impact of leaving the player in control of a situation as events unfold. Take an example in HL2: Episode 1. When underground in the dark, Alyx makes a zombie sound from behind, you turn around gun ready and she laughs at you. A cut scene will struggle to reproduce that. [/QUOTE] Its so awesome it borders Magic. The E3 Demo for Bioshock Infinite was similar. When Elizabeth calls for your attention to show you something cool, she waits (temporarily) for you to face her before reacting. Imagine how difficult it was planning these types of scenarios. . . .
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