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Edge-Online: Next Xbox Will Require Always-On Internet, No Used Games.
- Feb 6, 2013 3:56 pm GMT
[QUOTE="Systems_Id"]
I beg to differ. It's not discouraging them because gamers can already trade in their unwanted games and buy Call of Duty for $30 or $20 instead of the full $60 if they so choose. And I greatly beg to differ that lowering prices on games wouldn't eliminate the used games market. The used DVD/Blu-Ray market is basically non-existent since movies are basically impulse purchase priced.
[/QUOTE]
Sure, people can trade their games in for new games. Is there data that can prove how often this is done? What about those that trade in their games for those very same new releases that Gamestop is selling used? That's quite an assumption to make that the majority of all new release sales are from people trading in their games.
I also think that lowering the price point for games will merely lower the price point for used games which only causes the margins to decrease. The difference bewteen DVD/Blu-ray and games is that the DVD/Blu-ray market is competing against digital platforms such as Netflix, Hulu, HBO Go and Youtube. People are able to access their movies and shows in different ways using many different media channels. You also have to consider movie rentals in the equation. Look no further than the popularity of Red Box. DVD/Blu-ray had no choice but to lower the initial price point in order to compete, however, it had nothing to with the used market.
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- Feb 6, 2013 3:58 pm GMT
If and when the used game is negated I really don't think it'll alter the market all that much. On the one hand you'll have those that sell and trade games buying fewer games but on the other hand you'll have those who purchase used games buying them new instead. I really doubt it'll be as cataclysmic as some people might think.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Feb 6, 2013 4:11 pm GMT
[QUOTE="Archangel3371"]If and when the used game is negated I really don't think it'll alter the market all that much. On the one hand you'll have those that sell and trade games buying fewer games but on the other hand you'll have those who purchase used games buying them new instead. I really doubt it'll be as cataclysmic as some people might think.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
I do not see companines removing the "anti-pirating" actions go away at those time.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Feb 6, 2013 4:18 pm GMT
"Let's not stand on ceremony here. Mr. Wayne." -Bane
i won't be buying it if it only requires online- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Feb 6, 2013 4:18 pm GMTBigboi500 wrote:Is he the Dark Knight, or the Joker?
He is both... and neither -- at the same time!
[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Is he the Dark Knight, or the Joker? :?[/QUOTE]
He is both... and neither -- at the same time!
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- Feb 6, 2013 4:20 pm GMT
[QUOTE="Archangel3371"]If and when the used game is negated I really don't think it'll alter the market all that much. On the one hand you'll have those that sell and trade games buying fewer games but on the other hand you'll have those who purchase used games buying them new instead. I really doubt it'll be as cataclysmic as some people might think.[/QUOTE]
My thoughts as well. For those using the used game market in order to by new releases will either find another avenue or simply wait for a price drop. MS or Sony may even find a way to nuture that demographic by offering digital game rentals. Regardless, if the used game market is removed people that want to play games will pay even if they end up paying more than what they are used to.
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- Feb 6, 2013 4:23 pm GMTc_rake wrote:Bigboi500 wrote:Is he the Dark Knight, or the Joker?
He is both... and neither -- at the same time!
So he's Clayface.
Now Playing: Skyrim, Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational, Dark Souls
Now Listening: Bill Callahan, Ice Cream Cathedral, Magic Sword
[QUOTE="c_rake"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Is he the Dark Knight, or the Joker? :?[/QUOTE]
He is both... and neither -- at the same time!
[/QUOTE] So he's Clayface.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Feb 6, 2013 4:25 pm GMTBigboi500 wrote:Is he the Dark Knight, or the Joker?S0lidSnake wrote:Bigboi500 wrote:
People who trade thier games for store credit to buy new games says otherwise.
Grammaton is smarter than that.
He's already pointed out that there is no way for us to know how much of that store credit goes towards purchasing new games. For all we know, it could be used for buying used games. Tough arguing with this guy I know.
He thinks of everything!He's the poster PGD deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll argue with him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just a poster... he's a silent moderator... a walking thesaurus. The Grammaton Cleric.
[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]
[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]
[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]
People who trade thier games for store credit to buy new games says otherwise.
[/QUOTE]
Grammaton is smarter than that. :P He's already pointed out that there is no way for us to know how much of that store credit goes towards purchasing new games. For all we know, it could be used for buying used games.
Tough arguing with this guy I know. :P He thinks of everything!
[/QUOTE]Is he the Dark Knight, or the Joker? :?
[/QUOTE]
He's the poster PGD deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll argue with him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just a poster... he's a silent moderator... a walking thesaurus. The Grammaton Cleric.
- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Feb 6, 2013 4:30 pm GMT
[QUOTE="juradai"]
[QUOTE="Archangel3371"]If and when the used game is negated I really don't think it'll alter the market all that much. On the one hand you'll have those that sell and trade games buying fewer games but on the other hand you'll have those who purchase used games buying them new instead. I really doubt it'll be as cataclysmic as some people might think.[/QUOTE]
My thoughts as well. For those using the used game market in order to by new releases will either find another avenue or simply wait for a price drop. MS or Sony may even find a way to nuture that demographic by offering digital game rentals. Regardless, if the used game market is removed people that want to play games will pay even if they end up paying more than what they are used to.
[/QUOTE]
The used game market is around 28% if Gamestop's quarter earnings are any indication. That's a huge chunk of the pie. And that doesn't even include the new game sales that are funded using store credit earned from trading in games. You take that out and you will have an already fragile industry collapsing on itself.
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- Feb 6, 2013 4:41 pm GMT
[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]
[QUOTE="juradai"]
[QUOTE="Archangel3371"]If and when the used game is negated I really don't think it'll alter the market all that much. On the one hand you'll have those that sell and trade games buying fewer games but on the other hand you'll have those who purchase used games buying them new instead. I really doubt it'll be as cataclysmic as some people might think.[/QUOTE]
My thoughts as well. For those using the used game market in order to by new releases will either find another avenue or simply wait for a price drop. MS or Sony may even find a way to nuture that demographic by offering digital game rentals. Regardless, if the used game market is removed people that want to play games will pay even if they end up paying more than what they are used to.
[/QUOTE]
The used game market is around 28% if Gamestop's quarter earnings are any indication. That's a huge chunk of the pie. And that doesn't even include the new game sales that are funded using store credit earned from trading in games. You take that out and you will have an already fragile industry collapsing on itself.
[/QUOTE]
If Sony and MS don't remove it altogether then I think they will try to move it into their control. Speaking strictly business, Gamestop is a middle-man nuisance. If I were MS or Sony I would try everything in my power to move that aftermarket revenue stream into my domain and cater to it. However, I don't think it will cause a massive collapse if the used market is removed.
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- Feb 6, 2013 4:53 pm GMT
Now Playing: Far Cry 3 (360), Dead Space 3 (360), Journey (PS3)
I really doubt this is true -- it'd have too much of a negative impact on consumer perception of the machine. Like it's been stated in this topic several times, people simply won't buy the machine if the possibility of lending it to a family member or friend is out of the picture. It's just asinine. That's part of the fun of having a console. PC gaming can survive this because you can find recently released PC games digitally, typically at -%50 or more.
Speaking from personal experience, I've bought games I was on the fence about because I knew even if I didn't like the game, I could always trade it and return some of my investment. This would be absolutely suicidal of Microsoft, and would only increase pirating and bring about an intense loathing and bitterness from the gaming community at large.
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- Feb 6, 2013 5:09 pm GMT
[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]
[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]
[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]
That's not entirely true. Used game purchases generate interest in new titles, like sequels for instance. Also, a lot of people who buy used games also purchase new ones, like myself. This will hurt new game sales too, especially since people can't share them with friends and family. Knowing they can't trade them in, and that they're stuck with that new game forever, they are much less likely to spend that $60 + tax.
[/QUOTE]
There is no formula or evidence to quantify the assertion that used sales stir up fervor for sequels to pre-existing games.
None.
Most games that are successful enough to generate sequels can be easily purchased, new, at retail for a low price so even assuming you were correct, the used market isn't crucial to the proliferation of hype for an upcoming sequel.
However, the notion that a game cannot be easily re-sold might affect those who don't purchase games with the intention of keeping them. The problem is that we have no data as to what percentage of such consumers make up the overall market space.
[/QUOTE]People who trade thier games for store credit to buy new games says otherwise.
[/QUOTE]
Do you grasp, at even the most elementary level, what data and evidence actually are?
We know people trade-in games to subsidize the cost of new software but what we don't know is how much of the consumer base these people represent or how much of that subsidy buoys the new game market.
And your notion that the used market is some manner of propellant for upcoming sequels is wholly illogical and mind-numbingly redundant. If a game has already sold well enough to spawn a sequel then the interest for that sequel already exists, regardless if people buy a used copy of the earlier game.
And again, why purchase a used copy when you can nab the majority of older software dirt cheap and factory sealed?
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- Feb 6, 2013 5:10 pm GMTI wont be buying it if you have to be online all the time. I don't want to b ALWAYS online. What if the connection drops? What if your ISP has the network down for maintanence? What if it goes down during a storm? I'm sure it's all just false, there is no way they would do that. The majority of people still don't have access to broadband. If you live in a small town or out in the country your only option is satellite (which is impossible for gaming) so unless the only want people in major cities (Excluding college kids and anyone with a bad connection to buy their system)... if it's true their system will fail.
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- Feb 6, 2013 5:16 pm GMT
[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]And again, why purchase a used copy when you can nab the majority of older software dirt cheap and factory sealed?[/QUOTE]
Convenience. Lot easier to find a newly released game cheap as a used copy a than factory-sealed one. If you don't want to wait for price reductions, used is the only option. From there, could just become a case of habit.
Could also be that there are some sort of "membership" benefits to buying used. The now closed Game Crazy chain of games stores had something like that. Join their "MVP" program and you'll get big discounts on used games. Wouldn't be surprised if that was driving used sales at certain retailers.
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- Feb 6, 2013 5:17 pm GMT
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They can't be that stupid, if they are PC gaming will simply become even more popular. And lets not underestimate microsoft's stupidity though.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Feb 6, 2013 5:31 pm GMT
[QUOTE="c_rake"]
[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]And again, why purchase a used copy when you can nab the majority of older software dirt cheap and factory sealed?[/QUOTE]
Convenience. Lot easier to find a newly released game cheap as a used copy a than factory-sealed one. If you don't want to wait for price reductions, used is the only option. From there, could just become a case of habit.
Could also be that there are some sort of "membership" benefits to buying used. The now closed Game Crazy chain of games stores had something like that. Join their "MVP" program and you'll get big discounts on used games. Wouldn't be surprised if that was driving used sales at certain retailers.
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps, but I would imagine that, at best, the issue of price and convenience is a case-by-case issue since some games are easy to find cheap and factory sealed while others, not so much.
I nab new quality software (and some junk) at prices well under ten dollars on a continuous basis thus I've never seen the advantage of buying used unless it is something incredibly rare.
And on newer software, the used discount is a joke. Most games, almost without fail, can be purchased for 39.99 or less within a few weeks of release and sometimes much sooner.
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- Feb 6, 2013 5:34 pm GMT
PC/Wii/360/PS3/PSP
GO LEAFS GO
If true, I will skip the 720 /whatever it is called.
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- Feb 6, 2013 5:36 pm GMT
Nintendo + Sony
PSN & NN ID: Briguyb13 | 3DS FC: 1418-7019-4685
[QUOTE="c_rake"]
[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]And again, why purchase a used copy when you can nab the majority of older software dirt cheap and factory sealed?[/QUOTE]
Convenience. Lot easier to find a newly released game cheap as a used copy a than factory-sealed one. If you don't want to wait for price reductions, used is the only option. From there, could just become a case of habit.
Could also be that there are some sort of "membership" benefits to buying used. The now closed Game Crazy chain of games stores had something like that. Join their "MVP" program and you'll get big discounts on used games. Wouldn't be surprised if that was driving used sales at certain retailers.
[/QUOTE]Kind of reminds me of Gamefly, where you can get "used" games that are actually brand new in some cases, @ $10 cheaper on day one. I got Ni No Kuny like that for $50 with free shipping. Same for Far Cry 3.
I know I'd be much less inclined to buy most titles like that day one @ full price. Microsoft would be bone-headed to require activation codes in their games and miss out on all those sales. No matter how somebody looks at it, companies like red box, Blockbuster, GameStop and Gamefly still have to purchase those games to begin with, and they add up.
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- Feb 6, 2013 6:01 pm GMT
[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]
Perhaps, but I would imagine that, at best, the issue of price and convenience is a case-by-case issue since some games are easy to find cheap and factory sealed while others, not so much.
I nab new quality software (and some junk) at prices well under ten dollars on a continuous basis thus I've never seen the advantage of buying used unless it is something incredibly rare.
And on newer software, the used discount is a joke. Most games, almost without fail, can be purchased for 39.99 or less within a few weeks of release and sometimes much sooner.
[/QUOTE]
The problem, I think, is that most folks don't want to wait to get the latest and greatest big release. They want it the very second it comes out, so if they can get it at a discount -- even a very poor one -- they'll jump on it. That's how GameStop has single-handedly been able to make a hugely profitable business out of used games. Because games are expensive, anyone will take any savings they can get. I don't like it -- prefer buy new whenever possible so that I know the game will work (had enough bad experiences to stop trusting used games will work just because they're being sold) and to try supporting the developers however possible -- but it works.
Hell, with how antagonistic lot of people have become toward publishers and developers DLC and online pass practices, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of used game sales were born out of malice.
[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Kind of reminds me of Gamefly, where you can get "used" games that are actually brand new in some cases, @ $10 cheaper on day one. I got Ni No Kuny like that for $50 with free shipping. Same for Far Cry 3.[/QUOTE]
I'm renting Ni no Kuni from GameFly now (great game!), and I could buy from them for $38 with the $5 dicount coupon and 10% discount I've got. Kinda ridiculous how cheap they let you buy games for.
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- Feb 6, 2013 6:05 pm GMT
[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]
There is no formula or evidence to quantify the assertion that used sales stir up fervor for sequels to pre-existing games.
None.
Most games that are successful enough to generate sequels can be easily purchased, new, at retail for a low price so even assuming you were correct, the used market isn't crucial to the proliferation of hype for an upcoming sequel.
However, the notion that a game cannot be easily re-sold might affect those who don't purchase games with the intention of keeping them. The problem is that we have no data as to what percentage of such consumers make up the overall market space.
[/QUOTE]
There are no evidence to say to the contrary so, that point is rather mute. However, here is an undisputed fact, used games exist because of the purchase of new games. Gamestop has created a system for gamers in which used games sustains the purchase of newer games. A person can trade in an old game for a reduction in price for the new game, it gives value to the new game purchase. Once this value is removed, the purchase of new games would be jeopardize and folks would be more like steam users where they purchase the bulk of their games when they are drastically discounted.
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