[STICKY] Post-Chaos Training Spot Guide
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- Aug 4, 2011 9:40 pm GMTEnd_of_Day posted...
This is just a reminder for everyone to stay on topic. I appreciate it, but I nor the section of the guide I wrote need any further defense.
Sage, the fact that Mewtwo copied my words directly does not completely exempt him from the responsibility of having posted it. Sal's "huge no" lacks explicit justification of his denial, but I could provide that for you: Mewtwo posted it, and is therefore responsible as far as explaining that he trusted me as a reliable source. Beyond that, I assume responsibility for explaining the LHC guide as its author and as the Mewtwo put his trust into for that section. However you or sal want to weight that is up to you guys.
TL;DR Mewtwo is obligated to explain his inclusion of the LHC guide about as far as saying "Ask End_of_Day."
With that having been said, Mewtwo, your comment rings of a mocking tone and it doesn't speak well of you. However fitting you might find it for sal, I think you would agree this isn't the proper place for it.
Once again, if anyone has questions or comments relevant to the LHC guide, I would be happy to address them.
DW, I'm done being condescending now. Gotta keep the guide civil.
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[NightReigns 10x Hermit] [Elementaiizt 106 Dragon Knight]
gMS Khaini -=-=-=-=- Currently leveling: NightReigns - Aug 4, 2011 10:05 pm GMTThat's what I kind of meant, I'm not exactly the best with words. Only the person who wrote it can accurately explain what they meant, as far as guides go. I'm still looking forward to Sal's LHC guide. I kid, I kid
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MapleStory -> Bellocan -> MudkipLiker0 (120 Aran), BahamutEXA (61 Evan), gamesageUA (84 Gunslinger), all others are retired...for now - Aug 4, 2011 10:34 pm GMTEvilMewtwo posted...
saLUEtes posted...
gamesage53 posted...
Copying that section word for word from what someone else wrote definitely exempts you from being responsible for it
A huge no on this.
ITP: Let's blame the guy I think is a stupid doo doo head, even though he just trusted someone with experience as Grand Master Sallaama requested!
Ah of course, you're just being victimized for no reason - nothing to do with the fact you published a very poor section, and now you're trying to distance yourself as far as you can from it.
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One of the rational heads of the MapleStory board
Logic, Fairness and Impartiality - Aug 4, 2011 10:38 pm GMTHe's just saying to talk to the person that wrote it, not the one who posted it. And if the section is really that bad, then write one, Sal. Write an LHC guide, get it stickied, then this whole thing can end
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MapleStory -> Bellocan -> MudkipLiker0 (120 Aran), BahamutEXA (61 Evan), gamesageUA (84 Gunslinger), all others are retired...for now - Aug 4, 2011 10:51 pm GMTNo, he (and you) are saying that because he published it, he has absolutely no responsibility for how poor quality it is. I am telling you flat out, you are wrong.
Also how long will you keep this "if you critique something then you have to do the same thing yourself" schtick up? Are you going to harass every other high level who has commented on how poor the section is too? Just keep firm on that bandwagon, buddy (which keeps shrinking and shrinking)!
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One of the rational heads of the MapleStory board
Logic, Fairness and Impartiality - Aug 4, 2011 11:12 pm GMTI said 2-3 posts later that it wasn't what I meant. I meant that any questions about that section should be directed at the one who wrote that section and not the one who published it. You keep saying how bad the section is, but you haven't said why or corrected any part of it. You seem like you know everything about it (saying how wrong the section is and just needs to be scrapped) so I think you should write one if you know why this one is so bad. Otherwise you're just saying that it sucks and aren't adding info to make it better. It's some stupid grudge against Mewtwo for taking the initiative to write a new guide and getting help from other people on the board, yet you still have a problem and it's ridiculous. I know that whatever I say is pointless because you'll just say how I'm wrong and on a bandwagon, etc, etc. until you feel the need to harass me in any thread I make. But if I'm going to be one of the people looking at the guide and you insist it can be better, then quote the incorrect info and correct it because just saying it's wrong and should be scrapped isn't doing any good.
Excuse that wall of text. It's hard to figure out spacing when I'm on my iPod so it's probably too long to bother reading.
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MapleStory -> Bellocan -> MudkipLiker0 (120 Aran), BahamutEXA (61 Evan), gamesageUA (84 Gunslinger), all others are retired...for now - Aug 4, 2011 11:17 pm GMTgamesage53 posted...
I said 2-3 posts later that it wasn't what I meant. I meant that any questions about that section should be directed at the one who wrote that section and not the one who published it. You keep saying how bad the section is, but you haven't said why or corrected any part of it. You seem like you know everything about it (saying how wrong the section is and just needs to be scrapped) so I think you should write one if you know why this one is so bad. Otherwise you're just saying that it sucks and aren't adding info to make it better. It's some stupid grudge against Mewtwo for taking the initiative to write a new guide and getting help from other people on the board, yet you still have a problem and it's ridiculous. I know that whatever I say is pointless because you'll just say how I'm wrong and on a bandwagon, etc, etc. until you feel the need to harass me in any thread I make. But if I'm going to be one of the people looking at the guide and you insist it can be better, then quote the incorrect info and correct it because just saying it's wrong and should be scrapped isn't doing any good.
Excuse that wall of text. It's hard to figure out spacing when I'm on my iPod so it's probably too long to bother reading.
A few of us have already posted HOW the section sucks, not just that it does. Please read all the posts. inb4youwriteanLHCguideifyou'resoclever
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Windia~SatomiOrders~17X Paladin~ - Aug 4, 2011 11:19 pm GMTgamesage53 posted...
It's some stupid grudge against Mewtwo for taking the initiative to write a new guide and getting help from other people on the board, yet you still have a problem and it's ridiculous.
Oh, except for the fact that I corrected 3 huge errors in the creation of the guide (check the credits), and I'm not the only one who thinks the LHC section is poor.
Something tells me that with 120 being your highest, you aren't familiar enough with LHC to be able to critique the section.
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One of the rational heads of the MapleStory board
Logic, Fairness and Impartiality - Aug 4, 2011 11:27 pm GMTI saw some people say stuff, which is cool. Most of what I see Sal post is just saying it's wrong and should be scrapped. And 120 isn't my highest, nor did I critique that section at all, so that part is a poor attempt at attacking me. In all honesty, if the LHC section is that bad, then some people should work on a draft here on the board (in a different post of course, saying it's an LHC draft) so it can be stickied and separate from this guide which would make it easier for anyone curious about training at LHC. Maybe even taking good parts of the current section for it (if given permission) to make it easier to write. Sounds like a good plan to me.
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MapleStory -> Bellocan -> MudkipLiker0 (120 Aran), BahamutEXA (61 Evan), gamesageUA (84 Gunslinger), all others are retired...for now - Aug 4, 2011 11:33 pm GMTgamesage53 posted...
I saw some people say stuff, which is cool. Most of what I see Sal post is just saying it's wrong and should be scrapped. And 120 isn't my highest, nor did I critique that section at all, so that part is a poor attempt at attacking me. In all honesty, if the LHC section is that bad, then some people should work on a draft here on the board (in a different post of course, saying it's an LHC draft) so it can be stickied and separate from this guide which would make it easier for anyone curious about training at LHC. Maybe even taking good parts of the current section for it (if given permission) to make it easier to write. Sounds like a good plan to me.
There's no point in making an LHC guide seeing as it won't be a party zone for much longer.
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Windia~SatomiOrders~17X Paladin~ - Aug 4, 2011 11:41 pm GMTSage, Mewtwo, let me speak for the section of the guide I wrote myself. You obviously won't get anywhere with sal, so at the very least you could keep this topic free from clutter.
Azn_riza, I hope that you at least have read my explanations; however you have yet to react to them with any relevance. From what I gathered from your posts alone, I'm only able to tell that you agreed with what you quoted from sal and that you think the guide I wrote is bad. I believe I've addressed sal's points well enough. If you still think improvements can be made (if you still think it's bad), please enumerate those points, or elaborate on sal's. If you need any further clarification on my defense of the LHC guide, I can give you that as well.
*edit*
It'll be at least a few months before Jump comes out and LHC no longer becomes a party zone. You could write a comprehensive LHC guide in a day w/o drafts and get it stickied within the next two.
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Currently listening: Adele - Someone Like You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njwvIPJlPN0&feature=related - Aug 4, 2011 11:46 pm GMTIf it's not worth making a new guide, then why was it such a big deal about the one in this guide in the first place? To point out the flaws and say it's not worth making a new one, but it's worth saying how bad the one we have is? You might as well just say "110+ -> LHC" which I believe was the original plan (I might be wrong) or to try and give rough level ranges for what you train on while there (more likely). Instead of making a good guide, you'll just complain about how bad the current one is because "it's not worth it".
Edit: Sorry about the extra clutter I'm causing. I can tell it's a bad habit of mine so I try to avoid posting on the board at all.
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MapleStory -> Bellocan -> MudkipLiker0 (120 Aran), BahamutEXA (61 Evan), gamesageUA (84 Gunslinger), all others are retired...for now - Aug 5, 2011 10:00 am GMTLHC is the type of thing you understand as you go there yourself, and you shouldn't need a guid as a thing from experience. but other then that, I have a question about this part.
EM_MapleStory posted...
--------------------
-Death Teddies and Master Death Teddies are in the bottom section of Ludi Clocktower, near to Ghost Pirates and DGPs. You can start DTs are about 105, and MDTs at about 108. (Note: Secluded map, weak to Fire, Holy, Heal)
I should have looked at the previous guides to notice this change. BUT HOW THE HECK IS MASTER DEATH TEDDIES A SECLUDED MAP?
I don't know how Khaini is like, but I assume it in the same situation like Windia. with ABR dropping there, it 95% full, and often with hackers i add.
It UNLIKELY You have a decent spot if you go there just to train. - Aug 5, 2011 10:09 am GMTI personally prefer DTs over Ghost Pirates and that map is secluded. But you're right about MDTs; they're anything but secluded.
I also agree that people are going to get the best feel for LHC by experiencing it themselves; a better reason for why a fully detailed comprehensive guide is unnecessary.
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Currently listening: Adele - Someone Like You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njwvIPJlPN0&feature=related - Aug 5, 2011 10:09 am GMTDrSock posted...
LHC is the type of thing you understand as you go there yourself, and you shouldn't need a guid as a thing from experience. but other then that, I have a question about this part.
EM_MapleStory posted...
--------------------
-Death Teddies and Master Death Teddies are in the bottom section of Ludi Clocktower, near to Ghost Pirates and DGPs. You can start DTs are about 105, and MDTs at about 108. (Note: Secluded map, weak to Fire, Holy, Heal)
I should have looked at the previous guides to notice this change. BUT HOW THE HECK IS MASTER DEATH TEDDIES A SECLUDED MAP?
I don't know how Khaini is like, but I assume it in the same situation like Windia. with ABR dropping there, it 95% full, and often with hackers i add.
It UNLIKELY You have a decent spot if you go there just to train.
It might not be secluded, per se, but it certainly isn't busy. I went there at 3pm EST and was able to get a channel after 2 CCs. I've been there a few other times and didn't have trouble with finding a map then either. I could've been lucky, IDK.
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[NightReigns 10x Hermit] [Elementaiizt 106 Dragon Knight]
gMS Khaini -=-=-=-=- Currently leveling: NightReigns - Aug 5, 2011 10:12 am GMTOh Doctor, you brought up another good point: world differences. Vary good vary good.
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Currently listening: Adele - Someone Like You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njwvIPJlPN0&feature=related - Aug 5, 2011 10:16 am GMTIf it's not worth making a new guide, then why was it such a big deal about the one in this guide in the first place? To point out the flaws and say it's not worth making a new one, but it's worth saying how bad the one we have is? You might as well just say "110+ -> LHC" which I believe was the original plan (I might be wrong) or to try and give rough level ranges for what you train on while there (more likely). Instead of making a good guide, you'll just complain about how bad the current one is because "it's not worth it".
Failure and absence get accommodated for, but mediocre success becomes easily entrenched. I would agree with the sentiment that this shouldn't have gotten thrown into a sticky when it's not ready. I wasn't going to say anything here because it seemed like saL was being unnecessarily antagonistic about the matter and I didn't want to fuel the fire, but gamesage is completely right in this regard.
A good 'sticky guide' is marked by numerous pages of "very helpful, thanks" that follow it - not numerous pages of error-correction and explanation about how It's Not Completely Reliable, True, But We Did Decently Enough.
A compilation of 'community input' it may be, but the community input was clearly not settled-in enough to be ready for a sticky.
At least no one's got beef with the part you wrote. =P
I've had several bits of 'beef' with it. I just didn't want to churn an argument for no reason. If it's become a tangible call for a thumbs-down on the sticky, I'll openly support that.
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Step 1) The Wheel of Fate is Turning... Step 2) Beeeeees! Step 3) ???? Step 4) Kehehehehehehe! - Aug 5, 2011 10:32 am GMTHowlingDragoon posted...
A good 'sticky guide' is marked by numerous pages of "very helpful, thanks" that follow it - not numerous pages of error-correction and explanation about how It's Not Completely Reliable, True, But We Did Decently Enough.
A compilation of 'community input' it may be, but the community input was clearly not settled-in enough to be ready for a sticky.
True lololololololololol i was ultra surprised that it was stickied so fast. The sticky itself came kinda inb4sal tho, amirite? trolololololol
also inb4sal:i wasrite all along + + + + are agree w/ me kthxbye
*edit*
So...yeah actually sal definitely deserves credit for this guide for derailing every draft topic so hard. Thirty billion ton trains loaded with over 9000+ children could have been derailed by his trololol. - Aug 5, 2011 10:31 am GMTEvilMewtwo posted...
DrSock posted...
LHC is the type of thing you understand as you go there yourself, and you shouldn't need a guid as a thing from experience. but other then that, I have a question about this part.
EM_MapleStory posted...
--------------------
-Death Teddies and Master Death Teddies are in the bottom section of Ludi Clocktower, near to Ghost Pirates and DGPs. You can start DTs are about 105, and MDTs at about 108. (Note: Secluded map, weak to Fire, Holy, Heal)
I should have looked at the previous guides to notice this change. BUT HOW THE HECK IS MASTER DEATH TEDDIES A SECLUDED MAP?
I don't know how Khaini is like, but I assume it in the same situation like Windia. with ABR dropping there, it 95% full, and often with hackers i add.
It UNLIKELY You have a decent spot if you go there just to train.
It might not be secluded, per se, but it certainly isn't busy. I went there at 3pm EST and was able to get a channel after 2 CCs. I've been there a few other times and didn't have trouble with finding a map then either. I could've been lucky, IDK.
The fact you had to CC kinda goes against the idea of a secluded map. so atleast change it to Fairly/extremely crowded map
End_of_Day posted...
Oh Doctor, you brought up another good point: world differences. Vary good vary good.
Hum, you can address this basing this guide on a populated world like winida or scania(more people will play on a more poulatated world, thus the guide should be more or less focused on them). and then make make a notice of how certain worlds would have less populations, thus changing the fairly crowded to secluded by certain worlds.
and how it negativly affect party place like LHC - Aug 5, 2011 10:35 am GMTGosh, how barren ARE the smaller worlds, anyway? Do they not even have enough people at one time for 6 people to meet in channel 1 and L> party? Meeting in channel one works just fine for other joint ventures, and I would hope similar social patterns follow in the smaller worlds. It would just make sense.
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Currently listening: Adele - Someone Like You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njwvIPJlPN0&feature=related
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