Let's discuss Ocelot's mentality? *Caution: Major SPOILERS*
This topic is now read-only on GameSpot.
To post new messages, please visit GameFAQs and log in using the same email and password that you use on GameSpot.
Nov 8, 2012 4:55 pm GMT
Spoilers ahead
so i beat the game again and...
ocelot started posing as liquid for the sole reason of fooling the patriots AI, right?
i dont understand the whole will versus psyche thing they mention about liquid's arm though.
i know ocelot always looked up to big boss, but i don't get the twist here...
-ocelot was a founding member and agent of the patriots, it all started with the metal gear technology they stole from sokolov and the philosophers legacy money.
*fast forward
-solidus worked with ocelot during the shadow moses incident, but got forced out of office due to the patriots godly control of the world and now resented them. solidus started plotting to take down the patriots and ocelot leaked metal gear data to the black market to watch the world go nuts with nuclear weapons. and ocelots intentions were initially to watch solidus and liquid go to war?
*two years later
-ocelot finds out about and steals ray prototype on the tanker and 2 years later gives it to solidus at the plant while collecting data for the S3 plan, but he needed to act like liquids arm took over his body to trick the patriot AI?
-the exagerrated liquid ocelot personality was mainly due to drugs and autosuggestion and wasn't vital to the plot (so he started believing he was liquid and got the prosthetic to regain his psyche?)
-in the end ocelot really was helping solidus and wanted to take down the patriots also, except that he needed to act like he was liquid to rise up in power through his own methods and his own outer heaven to reach the source which was major zero all along?
...
i want to understand / know more. someone help me out here.
in the end it makes it looks like solidus had a similar goal to big boss and ocelot and wasn't a bad guy at all or at least, was thinking on the right track...
aside from the war history and child soldiers like raiden...
Nov 9, 2012 9:25 am GMT
That's the thing with this series. A lot of this is open to interpretation. As I understood it, the Patriots sort of split into two factions at one point: Zero, Sigint, and Para Medic vs Big Boss, Ocelot, and EVA. When Zero put Big Boss in a coma, EVA and Ocelot were infuriated and left, though Ocelot continued to act as if he was with Zero. I was always under the impression that Ocelot's loyalties were with Big Boss because of how much he admired him during and since Operation Snake Eater. I believe he was playing Solidus for a fool the whole time he was collaborating with him. That was certainly the case in MGS2 at least, as Ocelot was a Patriots agent helping with the S3 plan.
Though it may be confusing, I'd say that of the non-antagonizing faction of the Patriots, I'd say Ocelot was still a true antagonist. His actions (like leaking Metal Gear to the black market) show me that he only wanted them gone more for personal gain, rather than to alleviate the country of their control. Didn't he want to bring about his own wave of control? I think EVA and Big Boss would have settled for just eliminating them (which Big Boss eventually did). By the same logic, Solidus' intentions were also not inherently bad, neither. Though, his methods and reasoning were what puts him more on the villainous side. He too wanted to eliminate the Patriots, though he was ultimately played for a fool and died like one.
---
Soul Silver FC - 4469 3620 2054 / Diamond FC - 1033 3883 0634
Nov 11, 2012 12:21 pm GMT
I heard the time in MGS2 where he first gets controlled by Liquid was genuine, then everytime afterwards he was faking, the first time was with Snake, after the time between that and Raiden coming in was like 2 years, in those 2 years he began training his psyche to act just like Liquid
---
PSN ID: Ace2540
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"
PSN ID:Ace2540
Nov 14, 2012 2:17 pm GMT
Heartsnatcher posted...Spoilers ahead
so i beat the game again and...
ocelot started posing as liquid for the sole reason of fooling the patriots AI, right?
i dont understand the whole will versus psyche thing they mention about liquid's arm though.
i know ocelot always looked up to big boss, but i don't get the twist here...
-ocelot was a founding member and agent of the patriots, it all started with the metal gear technology they stole from sokolov and the philosophers legacy money.
*fast forward
-solidus worked with ocelot during the shadow moses incident, but got forced out of office due to the patriots godly control of the world and now resented them. solidus started plotting to take down the patriots and ocelot leaked metal gear data to the black market to watch the world go nuts with nuclear weapons. and ocelots intentions were initially to watch solidus and liquid go to war?
*two years later
-ocelot finds out about and steals ray prototype on the tanker and 2 years later gives it to solidus at the plant while collecting data for the S3 plan, but he needed to act like liquids arm took over his body to trick the patriot AI?
-the exagerrated liquid ocelot personality was mainly due to drugs and autosuggestion and wasn't vital to the plot (so he started believing he was liquid and got the prosthetic to regain his psyche?)
-in the end ocelot really was helping solidus and wanted to take down the patriots also, except that he needed to act like he was liquid to rise up in power through his own methods and his own outer heaven to reach the source which was major zero all along?
...
i want to understand / know more. someone help me out here.
in the end it makes it looks like solidus had a similar goal to big boss and ocelot and wasn't a bad guy at all or at least, was thinking on the right track...
aside from the war history and child soldiers like raiden...
A few things.
-Solidus's motivation was less about freeing America from The Patriots and more about being remembered, to the extent that he was willing to do anything to this, resulting in an absolutely brutal method of doing this.
-Ocelot could never actually openly antagonize The Patriots. Eva had already, and she needed Ocelot to be in the inside. Whats more, with Zero becoming more paranoid and JD taking control latter on, openly antagonizing them would mean a quick adn unpredictable death. So instead, Ocelot used Fox to kill Paramedic and Liquid and Solidus to kill Signit.
-Ocelot being controlled by the Liquid persona was part of then plan. The idea was that Ocelot had no idea how JD would react if he declared war against The Patriots, but if Liquid rebelled, The Patriots would do the same thing the did when the other Snakes rebelled against them. Send in Snake.
-Ocelot doesn't regain his psyche until after the fist fight at the end.
-Solidus's plan was doomed to fail (at least by the time the MGS2 came along) as so much of it had already been manipulated by GW and JD. Ocelot may have had plans of helping Solidus early on, while throwing The Patriots a bone or two, but I find this unlikely. For most of their so called alliance, Ocelot was using Solidus as a testing ground for his own rebellion.
---
"Hey bridesmaid, love the beard! Give's me something to hang onto!!"- Lord Flasheart
Metal Gear Solid (PS)
Metal Gear Solid (PC)
MGS2: Substance (PS2)
MGS: The Twin Snakes (GC)
