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Kyrie Irving is just nasty

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whodeynotdat

Feb 5, 2013 1:18 pm GMT
How bout we put rose,Paul, and Parker at the top tier while curry, Westbrooke, and Irving are the next tier. I think the AI without the attitude is the best comparison. Both have good handles and are great scorers. Hard to know about playmaking because the have no other offensive treats. As for the person who said the cavs need a 2nd young scorer, dion waiters is that guy. He's extremely inconsistent and can score 20 points on 9/18 shooting with a couple free throws or go 3/11 for 8 points. Scoring wise, he reminds me of Westbrooke. Cavs need interior D. I want them to get Nerlen Noel's just because he has the athleticism to be a great shot blocker. Thompson may provide another scorer too as he is averaging 14ish since varejao went out. It's not crazy to think he could be averaging 18/10 in a couple of years.

Also I highly doubt melo leads the cavs to 38-40 wins as melo barely got that with the Knicks last year with a much better line up.
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whodeynotdat

Feb 5, 2013 1:25 pm GMT
McGriff i forgot to say you are right on a lot of points. Why everyone is so mad at you is because you make statements like kyrie is on equal grounds with tyreke Evans. You really haven't said a positive thing about Irving. Despite me being against melo leading the cavs to 38 wins, I do think melo is the MVP this year. He's really changed the culture for the Knicks.
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_Floater_

Feb 5, 2013 1:38 pm GMT
whodeynotdat posted...
McGriff i forgot to say you are right on a lot of points. Why everyone is so mad at you is because you make statements like kyrie is on equal grounds with tyreke Evans. You really haven't said a positive thing about Irving. Despite me being against melo leading the cavs to 38 wins, I do think melo is the MVP this year. He's really changed the culture for the Knicks.

Paul has changed the Clipper culture much more than Melo has changed the Knick culture if that's your argument.

The Clippers have literally never been as good as they are now
garnett2124

Feb 5, 2013 2:03 pm GMT
Russell Westbrook is certainly a top 3 PG in the NBA. He does take a few too many shots considering he has the best pure scorer on earth on his team, but he has improved his assist numbers greatly and is 4th or 5th in the entire league in that category. Plus he is a solid defender and the most athletic PG in the NBA aside from a %100 DRose and maybe John Wall. He's developed a solid mid range jumper to go along with everything else he already has. Kyrie has better 3 point range than him, but that's it in terms of measurable basketball skills. When it comes to leadership and things of that nature it appears Kyrie has the edge however. With that said, Kyrie is certainly in 5-7 range to me and a top 15 player overall. For 20 years old, that is very impressive. Nevertheless, we've seen plenty of young players put up great numbers and fall off. You just use the eye test on Kyrie and it appears, barring injury, he'll be an all-time great. He has the certain confidence and demeanor about his game that TMac and Vince and others lacked. Combined with a good work ethic, and he's set. As for the guy that said Rondo is one of the best isolation defenders in the league....no. He's a slightly above average iso defender at best. He's great at getting into passing lanes and following the team defense concept of the Celtics, but one-on-one he gamble far too often and gets beat by quicker guys because of it.
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garnett2124

Feb 5, 2013 2:06 pm GMT
Also, LeBron is the MVP and the only one close to him is Durant and even then, it's still not that close. Carmelo is a terrific scorer but LeBron does literally everything for the Heat. 27, 8, and 7 shooting 55% from the floor and 40% from 3 all while being the primary playmaker on a top 3 team in the league. Oh ya, and he can also effectively guard any player in the NBA.
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Draje

Feb 5, 2013 2:07 pm GMT
Westbrook is in the top tier with Parker and crew. Say what you want about him, he's still the leader and playmaker on a top-ranked offense in the league. Durant's obviously the ace but Westbrook is still the guy who creates, keeps defenses honest with his attacking, is all but unguardable due to his freakish explosiveness and speed,

Irving is on the same tier as Curry, Rondo, Williams, etc.
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DuceDestiny

Feb 5, 2013 2:20 pm GMT
garnett2124 posted...
Russell Westbrook (...) developed a solid mid range jumper to go along with everything else he already has.

If the boy could shoot off the dribble from mid range instead of just one step pull ups, his field goal percentage would jump up to 50%+ easily.

Draje posted...
Westbrook is in the top tier with Parker and crew. Say what you want about him, he's still the leader and playmaker on a top-ranked offense in the league. Durant's obviously the ace but Westbrook is still the guy who creates, keeps defenses honest with his attacking, is all but unguardable due to his freakish explosiveness and speed,

Irving is on the same tier as Curry, Rondo, Williams, etc.

The Leader? No, that goes to Durant but yes everything else about him I am with you. I wouldn't put D-Will on the same tier as Curry. He has honestly fallen off, and nobody seems to really know why. I see the argument for Rondo being in that group, I just can't put such a flawed player on the level of Curry or Irving. I would put Rondo and Williams a step behind Curry and Irving, but even then its just splitting hairs. The gap isn't as large as the one between the top guys and second tier guys.
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ZechsPeacecraft

Feb 5, 2013 2:45 pm GMT
garnett2124 posted...
Russell Westbrook is certainly a top 3 PG in the NBA. He does take a few too many shots considering he has the best pure scorer on earth on his team, but he has improved his assist numbers greatly and is 4th or 5th in the entire league in that category. Plus he is a solid defender and the most athletic PG in the NBA aside from a %100 DRose and maybe John Wall. He's developed a solid mid range jumper to go along with everything else he already has. Kyrie has better 3 point range than him, but that's it in terms of measurable basketball skills. When it comes to leadership and things of that nature it appears Kyrie has the edge however. With that said, Kyrie is certainly in 5-7 range to me and a top 15 player overall. For 20 years old, that is very impressive. Nevertheless, we've seen plenty of young players put up great numbers and fall off. You just use the eye test on Kyrie and it appears, barring injury, he'll be an all-time great. He has the certain confidence and demeanor about his game that TMac and Vince and others lacked. Combined with a good work ethic, and he's set. As for the guy that said Rondo is one of the best isolation defenders in the league....no. He's a slightly above average iso defender at best. He's great at getting into passing lanes and following the team defense concept of the Celtics, but one-on-one he gamble far too often and gets beat by quicker guys because of it.

I'd like to see you guard LeBron in the post season. Rondo did about as good as anyone could under 6' 5" against LeBron. He is definitely up there in terms of iso defense when he isn't gambling on the passing lanes, but you're right he does gamble way too much.
Btw if I said he was the best (too lazy to look back) then I'm wrong. That definitely goes to LeBron or Tony Allen; Rondo's no slouch however.

I also think Kyrie is a better scorer in most aspects outside of transition offense or driving the ball, not just a better 3 point shooter (except maybe the pull-up mid range, Westbrook can be down right deadly with that move)

Otherwise all valid points

And Durant should get the MVP this year, the Thunder team is obviously more hungry than Miami and is playing with a sense of urgency just about every game. It's an award for the regular season and he has his Thunder team playing at a relatively higher level with an arguably weaker supporting cast. To me it just seems like the Heat are coasting (which is scary considering they have the number one seed) when the Thunder are playing with a sense of urgency just about every game
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Draje

Feb 5, 2013 3:55 pm GMT
I'd call Westbrook more of the leader because gectebdscto be more vocal ad he seems like the heart of the team. Kinda like Demg is the leader of the Bulls even if Rose is, by far, the best player. Westbrook controls the tempo and pretty much sets the entire pace for the team.

Williams isn't as good as we expected but he's still pretty damn good and I feel he's pretty much a lesser Parker. Solid in all aspects. Rondo's a flawed player but he's just a post season monster who is one of the few players that just really elevates his game to the next level.

Kyrie is a better shooter than Westbrook but Westbrook's strength, explosiveness, and finishing ability give him the nod to me. Scoring-wise, they're pretty much even. And again, Westbrook is still VERY young too. Westbrook is one of the few PGs who is more athletic than Kyrie.

Like I said, Kyrie is a slightly worse shooting version of Curry with more explosiveness, better handles, and much better finishing. Curry is a better passer, better at controlling a game, and better at creating for his teammates.
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iDevon

Feb 5, 2013 5:17 pm GMT
Draje posted...
gectebdscto

What?!
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ZechsPeacecraft

Feb 5, 2013 5:49 pm GMT
must be typing with his phone or something
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croy3

Feb 5, 2013 6:50 pm GMT
Deron williams is not even close to as good as Kyrie right now.
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DuceDestiny

Feb 5, 2013 7:06 pm GMT
croy3 posted...
Deron williams is not even close to as good as Kyrie right now.

Did you just watch the Lakers vs Nets?
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If you like big men, it would be Wilt Chamberlain. Or if you're racist you're gonna pick Larry Bird - Horry
whodeynotdat

Feb 5, 2013 7:22 pm GMT
Looking at the box score it appears that d will had a pretty bad game. Bad shooting #'s. notice the nets didn't go to him towards the end? Lopez is the man in Brooklyn, not d will. D will's shot is just off horribly. It looks flat whenever I watch the nets. There's almost no good argument for d will>kyrie currently. D will WAS good, but is an average point guard right now.
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DuceDestiny

Feb 5, 2013 8:26 pm GMT
He came out looking and moving great, but that didn't last long. He seems to have lost confidence in his game or something. He has no presence on the floor. He wasn't creating shots for other plays, and couldn't really create for himself consistently. There was a time when D-Will coming off a high screen and roll was down right scary, but tonight the Lakers seemed to almost ignore him and bait him into taking the shot himself.
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If you like big men, it would be Wilt Chamberlain. Or if you're racist you're gonna pick Larry Bird - Horry
Draje

Feb 5, 2013 9:37 pm GMT
iDevon posted...
Draje posted...
gectebdscto

What?!

Damn iPhone. "He tends to be more vocal"
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ZechsPeacecraft

Feb 5, 2013 10:28 pm GMT
I really wanted to make a huge argument against you claiming Deron was an average pg, but then I remembered how good the pg's are in this league as well as the fact that you could make an argument Raymond Felton & possibly Jammer Nelson (if memory serves he's getting 16 & 7, but that could be wrong) of all people is having a better year.

Damn D-Will, what happened? You were as close to being a superstar as you could get.

It has to be injuries, doesn't it? He was unhealthy basically his whole first year as a Net, went straight to Turkey so he couldn't heal, played a whole condensed season and then went straight to the Olympics where again he couldn't heal himself.

From those injuries he must have developed some bad habits and lost his confidence. I wouldn't be opposed to sitting D-Will for a month just to get both his body and head right, get the guy in the gym with a John Stockton or Magic or anybody. This man needs some serious help.

Also, there is no argument (today) for D Will > Irving overall, and it's a god **** shame
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Gek2

Feb 6, 2013 6:34 am GMT
ZechsPeacecraft posted...
I'm a little worried about Blake. If he gets a serious injury or looses his athleticism, what then?

He'll end up like Kemp. I love watching Griffin play but, until he gets a better all around game he won't be around long like a KG once his athleticism declines.
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_Floater_

Feb 6, 2013 10:42 am GMT
ZechsPeacecraft posted...
I really wanted to make a huge argument against you claiming Deron was an average pg, but then I remembered how good the pg's are in this league as well as the fact that you could make an argument Raymond Felton & possibly Jammer Nelson (if memory serves he's getting 16 & 7, but that could be wrong) of all people is having a better year.

Damn D-Will, what happened? You were as close to being a superstar as you could get.

It has to be injuries, doesn't it? He was unhealthy basically his whole first year as a Net, went straight to Turkey so he couldn't heal, played a whole condensed season and then went straight to the Olympics where again he couldn't heal himself.

From those injuries he must have developed some bad habits and lost his confidence. I wouldn't be opposed to sitting D-Will for a month just to get both his body and head right, get the guy in the gym with a John Stockton or Magic or anybody. This man needs some serious help.

Also, there is no argument (today) for D Will > Irving overall, and it's a god **** shame

Deron Williams is the same guy now he has always been. He just isn't in the Sloan system to make him look better
DuceDestiny

Feb 6, 2013 1:30 pm GMT
Gek2 posted...
He'll end up like Kemp. I love watching Griffin play but, until he gets a better all around game he won't be around long like a KG once his athleticism declines.

Honestly Blake and Kemp are totally different types of players, and are only compared because they both dunk. A better comparison for Blake is Chris Webber, both now and if he ever gets injured, as Webber did early and late in his career.
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If you like big men, it would be Wilt Chamberlain. Or if you're racist you're gonna pick Larry Bird - Horry