UK ratings debate heats up

The industry reacts publicly and vocally to the implications of the Byron Report, slamming the proposed new regulatory structure.

UK gamers would face even greater delays to releases and the nation's children would be put at unnecessary risk if the government follows the recent Byron Report's recommendations on game classification, according to Paul Jackson, director-general of UK games industry body ELSPA, speaking at the Westminster Media Forum in London this morning.

The Byron Report recommended that the ratings system be revamped, with PEGI ratings only for games suitable for the under-12s, and those warranting a statutory age restriction classified in the UK by the British Board of Film Classification. Many in the industry railed against this suggestion, including senior figures in both Sony and EA.

According to Jackson, moving the responsibility for a significant portion of UK games rating over to the BBFC would represent "a step backwards" for the UK industry. He described the current system as the gold standard. "For the games industry, when we talk about child protection, we talk about PEGI. PEGI is the solution for today, and the solution for tomorrow," Jackson explained. His feelings not only echoed previous statements on the matter, but were supported by Nintendo, Ubisoft UK, and Sega Europe in a statement released after the Forum's conclusion.

As an example of the child protection issue, Jackson raised the case of over 30 titles which received an 18+ rating from PEGI last year but went on to receive 15 ratings from the BBFC, and one that went down to a 12 in the UK. These included Beowulf, Jackass, and Dead Head Fred. This showed, according to Jackson, that the BBFC's methodology was fundamentally flawed, as it both leaves children at risk from unsuitable content, and thrusts them into adult-oriented online environments where they might be exposed to inappropriate behaviour.

Jackson then went on to suggest that the BBFC would not be able to cope with the increase in rating activity suggested by the Byron Report, and that this would inevitably lead to delays for UK gamers.

Peter Johnson, head of policy and development at the BBFC, mounted a robust defence of his organisation and its ability to help both the public and the games industry. He started off countering Jackson's point about child protection by reiterating the fact that there is no conclusive evidence of harm from games and gaming in general, and insisting that the BBFC was better placed to present ratings that would allow parents to make the correct decisions about what to do for their own children.

Johnson's two arguments were that an outside body was better placed to rate games than an internal one, and the simple fact that BBFC ratings are already understood and instantly recognised by the vast majority of parents, and so should take precedence when games not intended for children are being put on sale. PEGI is funded and controlled by the European games industry, and simply requires that publishers provide information on the content of games before it rates them; only those likely to get a 16+ or 18+ rating based on the information supplied are actually examined under the PEGI system. Johnson also ridiculed claims that the BBFC taking over rating games would delay games UK release further, claiming that the BBFC's average turnaround time for games is eight days, compared 14 for PEGI.

David Braben, founder of Frontier Developments and cowriter of classic game Elite, made the point that while the BBFC may claim to turn around games faster and present a more balanced picture than the check-box based self-regulatory system provided by PEGI, the nature of games means that the BBFC cannot get a full picture of the game they are rating without serious time investment and similar levels of disclosure from developers to the PEGI system.

Chris Deering, non-executive chairman of Codemasters, took a bleaker view of regulation in the changing gaming landscape, saying that no current rating system could cope with the changing gaming market, in particular due to the challenges presented by episodic games, downloadable content, and MMOs. "A thoughtful approach has to recognise the limits of regulation," he said.

Margaret Hodge, MP, spoke later in the day to give the government perspective on the industry. As the minister for culture, creative industries, and tourism, she is the highest governmental figure with a responsibility for the UK games industry, and she said that voters have been "demanding" action on the issue of ratings and regulation for quite some time. While refusing to come down on one side of the debate or another, Hodge did say that she felt that "adults should have the choice to play adult games," and acknowledged that while child protection was paramount, it should not be forgotten that the average age of a gamer in the UK is around 30.

50 Comments

  • Hexagon_777

    Posted Apr 14, 2009 1:57 pm GMT

    The UK should fully adopt the PEGI system already.

  • Gifted_One

    Posted Jul 13, 2008 3:39 am GMT

    Here is an idea. Copy USA. Then stop pretending you can turn off a game and make good kids. A good parent makes good kids. Not a games fault if a kid lashes out. Shoulda kept him slashin in Ninja Gaiden. Now he has to do it to others!

  • TehPickle

    Posted Jul 10, 2008 4:01 pm GMT

    Oh, and going back to what therapyhiccup said:

    "parents will still buy their kids 18 rated games."

    That's going to be a universal constant until the end of time I imagine, the only thing they can do to - at the very least - stem the situation is for the government to treat violent media sales like alcohol: Anyone suspected of purchasing violent media with the express intention of providing it to minors would be refused sale or worse if caught by the law. I wonder, would that be considered forward-thinking by the majority of buyers, or draconian? However that could pose other problems, like major loss of sales for stores due to customers being treated as some kind of "dealer." I fear this will be a problem that will never be resolved unless the goverment resort to biometrics, and knowing Labour that could be around the corner. I'm not sure if I'm being sarcastic or not!

  • TehPickle

    Posted Jul 10, 2008 3:46 pm GMT

    I used to work in a games store and the amount of kids that fobbed their parents (but, more particularly grandparents) off with the PEGI ratings was quite unbelievable.

    PEGI ratings became anything from a review score out of 20, a difficulty rating or how many hours of play it provided. Some of these kids really know how to work their guardians sense of morality.

    In my opinion, the current PEGI system doesn't work based almost entirely on the colour scheme, or lack thereof. BBFC 18 rated games are a cold, hard blood red. PEGI is just grey grey grey wether it contains frequent, strong scenes of pony petting or graphic violence.

    I'm not saying PEGI could never ever work (not that it needs to, BBFC does the job just fine for the most parts, some glaring misjudgments aside), but if it ever wants to be taken seriously, it must *look* serious to begin with!

  • Irve

    Posted Jul 10, 2008 1:47 am GMT

    ok ... example of why the games industy wants to keep pegi
    boishock under BBFC
    18 rated contains strong bloody violence
    or
    Bioshock under pegi
    18+ with a picture of a fist and a wavey line
    ( meant to show fist impact.)
    now faced with both which one of those give you a more informed view on if the game is suitable ?

  • DBGT301

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 6:02 pm GMT

    Maragaret Hodge speaking a lot of sense there. But with regard to the whole PEGI vs BBFC rating system: fair enough if PEGI isn't enforcable (which is stupid because I bet most people only know now it's not enforcable because people KEEP SAYING IT), but can they not just MAKE it enforcable?

    I don't know, I just feel I could trust a organisation that produces rating purely on games than one that I think will compare them with films - they are different media.

  • robtheguru

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 3:18 pm GMT

    Oh my god, an MP who talks sense

  • paulalderson

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 1:35 pm GMT

    You can always trust the government to screw up something it knows nothing about (sic fears). Damn jobsworths sticking their finger in just for the sake of creating a reason for them to exist.
    Rant over....

  • Leo_Colt

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 11:35 am GMT

    First of all, Margaret Hodge is right on the money. And my god, a Labour MP who knows what they're talking about. It's a living miracle!

    Anyway, I believe the BBFC should be used in the UK, simply because it works well here, it's enforcable, and because one subjective rating across the (media) board is much easier and clearer to understand than lots of different ratings. Most people recognise the rating from movies anyway, so they'll recognise thm on game boxes.

    Plus, the BBFC actually has common sense. Violence pushes ratings up over sex, simply because, well, it's common sense. Besides, the PEGI is far too similar to the utterly incompetent ESRB for my liking.

  • Lord-Viru

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 11:18 am GMT

    I think that Byrons original idea of joint classification with PEGI doing the classification for 12 and under games and BBFC doing the 15's 16's and 18's would be a good system. It would alleviate the pressure on both systems and would allow adults to see which games are aimed at them specifically while those for younger people would have more information going with them, so I think that both parties should lay down their tongue weapons and start working together to help get gaming classification right and protect younger people from potentially harmful content.

  • Irve

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 8:59 am GMT


    @
    jtthegame316

    what rubbish !!
    the BBFC have only tried to ban 2 games
    Carmageddon and Manhunt 2
    Carmageddon was released immediately with zombies rather than pedestrians and then the Ban was overturned and the BBFC didn't appeal
    and then Manhunt 2 ..
    which to be honest they acted like complete twonks over.
    the 100's of other games that pass without a hitch and without censorship count for nothing right ??

  • jtthegame316

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 8:53 am GMT

    living in the uk i know that the bbfc are idiots and just want to see what games they can ban. so i who they win the case to have the PEGI system. PEGI seems to be about giving a rating rather than seeing what they can create up roar about and ban or try to ban.

  • Irve

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 8:51 am GMT

    Kirky-
    how does the BBFC system not do that ??
    ... all it means is that Kids can't buy the games ..
    if a parent subsquently lets their kid play the game that's their choice as a perent ... much like in the UK if you choose to let your child have a bit of wine or cider with a meal it's up to you as a parent

  • Kirky-

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 8:41 am GMT

    The thing is, parents who know their kids level of maturity should be able to decide if they are prepared to play a game rated above their age level. The rating system is supposed to give parents an idea of what the game contains, and allows them, based on the content to decide wheather their kid can handle the game

  • GANGSTASAN

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 8:06 am GMT

    Oh.... BBFC, All this game rating crap in the UK. Can we JUST stop it? Just flipping leave it as it is.

  • mattkorn

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 6:10 am GMT

    i think something should be done, but using a similar system to the US by letters i think that would cause more confusion. i agree an age rating is the best approach. at the minute legally anyone who is any age can buy anything with a pegi rating without a prosecution. so a far out example, should a 5 year old be able to buy call of duty 4? that has a pegi rating 16+

  • Irve

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 5:04 am GMT

    This is simple
    the industry wants PEGI because they control it
    it's the same as the food industry not wanting the trafic light system on food cos those big red marks effect sales
    my point
    as it has always been
    is Adult games for adults
    when hot coffee broke where was the controversy in the UK ...
    there wasn't one
    .. why ..
    because GTA was rated 18 by the BBFC and therefore people know buying it that i may contain explicit sex and violence and drug use
    the BBFC system works
    it's recognised
    and it's legally enforceable
    don't let the industry fool you ..
    they are after the PEGI system because it's not enforacable by law and if the stores want to sell a PEGI game to a 5 yr old they can
    end result
    the Daily Mail kicks up a fuss
    games get pulled from the shelves ...
    and us adults .... who the games are made for lose out !!
    ask yourself .. why do they care if it has a BBFC 18 logo or a pegi logo ?
    why do they want a system that currently works to be removed and replaced with a system they control ?
    why are they against expanding it to include 12 rated games ?

  • MC_Raptor

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 4:52 am GMT

    Uh, Everyone knows, that if a kid wants that game, a kids gunna get that game. No rating stopped me playin gta 3 when i was 13! and it ddnt stop my little brother either!!!

  • Buttonio

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 4:44 am GMT

    I get the feeling that the PEGI ratings aren't taken seriously in the UK, simply because parents don't recognise the classification logo, whereas everyone in Britain recognises the BBFC classification logo.

  • Avenger1324

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 4:44 am GMT

    The BBFC criticises PEGI for not being as easy to understand - but I fail to see how a 12+ in a box (PEGI) any harder to understand than a 12 in a circle (BBFC)?

    I do prefer the UK rating system clearly displaying a suitable age, rather than the US system using letters such as E, T & M, since those appear less precise on who is allowed to buy it.

  • seijiro_hiko

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 4:39 am GMT

    lol @ Margaret Hodge nice one.

    Lets hope we dont get like america with cristian rating systems :s
    Regardless of whatever rating system is currently available parents don't really look at the Big 18 certificate on the box and think well I should'nt buy that for my 12 year old. Its not the rating system to blame its parent awareness I dont see why other fellow gamers who are 18+ should have there games censored!

  • canaries1

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 4:21 am GMT

    An MP saying something sensible? Amazing!

  • the_sorrow_MGS_

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 12:47 am GMT

    "adults should have the choice to play adult games"...well said Margaret and enough said.

  • Col-Neil

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 12:16 am GMT

    Why cant there just be a simple world wide rating U PG 12 15 18 its simple and it works so why do ppl still complain about the rating system

  • DaDude253

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 12:14 am GMT

    the PEGI is strict to strikt i think a game in AUS can be rated M (not restricted) and PEGI will give it 16+ EG Battle feild BC Devil my cry 4. one game is 18+ there thats M "Alone in the Dark [2008] lol u dont even have to be 15 to play that here yet PEGI says you gotta be 18 oh well poor uk

  • unndead16

    Posted Jul 9, 2008 12:10 am GMT

    In my country (Romania) we don't have a rateing organism, well at least one that cares, so that is not the issue in my country, the real proble is that games reach this isolated country very slow, 3-8 weeks after a euro release. people will play, and parents will buy, regardless of any rateing system.....so to be on topic.. I think that the BBFC system should be kept... my opinion!!!!

  • coolcat888

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 11:18 pm GMT

    @ bungie93..... LOL!

  • bungie93

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 9:28 pm GMT

    "Good thing America isn't communist like Europe."

    Barack Obama will change that.

  • mECHwARRIORx2 posted Jul 8, 2008 8:11 pm GMT (does not meet display criteria. sign in to show)

    mECHwARRIORx2

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 8:11 pm GMT (hide)

    Good thing America isn't communist like Europe.

  • StarFox-Elite

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 7:31 pm GMT

    Seriously Im just getting more and more annoyed by this news.

    We already get enough trouble getting the bloody developers to get us a game on time...

    We're a place where games aren't completely rejected to retail because of people who can't take a little pinch of reality and face that the world isn't perfect and never will be, so a violent game like Gears won't do much to change the world's problems. Lets not lose what I said in the first line. Lets not lose our freedom of entertainment to some stupid idiot who thinks they're the best because they got praise from their school teachers.

  • azafirster

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 6:09 pm GMT

    Arguing who gets the right to rate the game isn't going to solve the problem. Somebody just put their foot down and decide who will rate the games, and be quick about it. We don't have all century to wait for someone to decide.

  • DarkDamo

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 6:09 pm GMT

    At least you guys have a rating of 18+..unlike some other country that I am in that has a maximum rating of MA15+...I wonder what kind of country would have such a poor rating system for games...
    *cough*Australia*cough*

  • reeve92

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 5:04 pm GMT

    i was listening to a song by a 18 year old kid thats got it right

    the government blame computer games for the way kids think these days

    but they dont stop and think about the tax and inflation problem today ... anywayz my country has it all messed up changeing ratings of computer games is not going to stop crime OR minors playing them the main thing is that its down to the parents to decide what they think is apropriate for there kids ... but i do have to say the BBFC ratings are reconizable alot more because we hav been around them for years

  • Pulfasonic

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 4:46 pm GMT

    I have to say I'm leaning more towards the BBFC ratings simply because they really are more recognisable. The majority of parents still don’t understand how far games have advanced and still perceive them as “toys”. I think having a cold hard 18 stamped on some boxes in a red circle might waken them up. Who knows? if they already let them take drugs and watch porn then I doubt they would care about a videogame anyway. And for the people suggesting the US rating system they should be aware that this same debate is happening in your country. Your system is very flawed anyway having an AO as your highest rating. Everybody knows an AO is basically a kiss of death meaning the highest rating a videogame could get is a 17+. And in the UK, where violence is considered a lot worse than sex, I’m sure we would be getting a lot of AOs.

  • TehPickle

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 3:04 pm GMT

    @TylrKakarot1

    And what's that? Completely freaking out at the slightest hint of sex or nudity? Lets, for the purposes of this comment call it "nature"

    Anyway....I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this debate. The BBFCs certification structure is most definately more recognised, but at the same time, they often act as a kind-of mouthpiece for government policy. Regardless of how much they may refute such accusations, we need look no further than the recent Manhunt 2 debacle, namely their massive *massive* over-reaction to it based on the current media frenzy of violent crime among youths.

    Having said that, if, hypothetically PEGI had the responsibility of certifying the likes of Manhunt 2, would it still have carried the same stigma?

  • therapyhiccup

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 2:46 pm GMT

    parents will still buy their kids 18 rated games.

  • pmay007

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 2:33 pm GMT

    parents still see gaming as a kids past time and every little jonny or jane that want's to play an 18 rated game will still buy it, the government talk rubish and the bbfc should stick to movies, they should just give up as parents that need their heads examined, will still buy any game that they ask for.

    enough said!!!!

  • razgriz_101

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 1:39 pm GMT

    agree with you there TheKonspiracy

    its more easy everyone here knows the good old U,PG,12,15,18 system literally like the back of their hands.would imo make it easier to judge and make the system wider and easier to understand since we use it for films.
    would give the BBFC less headaches aswell

  • Trueknight64

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 1:38 pm GMT

    liam82517,
    and what do you propose we do with the hundreds of thousands of kids that are taken away from there parents for this? I work in the foster care system, and I can assure you that there already isn't enough room for kids that are abused. Your proposed solution is unrealistic and far from practical.

  • Mr_Tweedy

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 1:25 pm GMT

    All media should be unrated. The only thing that ratings do is encourage people to be mentally lazy and not make their own judgments.

    Publishers should be required to put frank and accurate descriptors on their packaging, with possibility of lawsuit if said packaging is found to be deceptive. There is no need for a third party to step in and slap a label on the box.

  • TheKonspiracy

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 1:04 pm GMT

    i think that all games in UK should just be rated by BBFC, their logos are much more recognised here as they are on every film. PEGI should just quit rating games for UK

  • liam82517

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 1:02 pm GMT

    Im sorry but this is a problem for parents. We have all seen trailers for gears 2, is there anyone that thinks that should be played by anyone under 18? If your kid comes to you and says hey can I have this game cos you can chainsaw people? If you say yes to that question your child should be taken from you, no ifs ands or buts, you're a BAD parent! STOP trying to make others teach your kids and take responsabilty for you crap parenting.

  • macacd

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 12:56 pm GMT

    The BBFC system should be used. the Rating icons are iconic symbols and easily understood. Different age ratings on DVDs and games would just cause confusion for the ill-informed.

  • Micropixel

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 12:55 pm GMT

    The problem is neglectful parents. Period.

    No rating system, no matter how many times it is changed or revamped, is ever going to be as effective as a parent who monitors what their children are exposed to.

  • KokutenNagaki posted Jul 8, 2008 12:49 pm GMT (does not meet display criteria. sign in to show)

    KokutenNagaki

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 12:49 pm GMT (hide)

    The rating system should go: E E10+ T T15+ M AO

  • natt39

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 12:47 pm GMT

    @kavadias1981
    Quite possibly the best solution that I've heard..... ..... The current system works fine and I have never come ever come across anyone who is confused by it.

  • scottiescott238

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 12:43 pm GMT

    I work in a games shop and as i seen it the BBFC has many flaws, The bbfc reviews video contecnt of the game and makes a rating, and on the other hand the PEGI review the game and come to an agreement with the developer.
    one example of bad BBFC ratings the gave mass effect a 12 rating and the PEGI gave it an 18 rating. meaning a 17 year old couldnt buy one, but a 12 year old would not be rejected.

  • TylrKakarot1

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 12:39 pm GMT

    I really think the UK should adopt the system that the US has...

  • PhoenixMDK

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 12:31 pm GMT

    I think many agree the system as a whole is not currently working, but the "broken" part simply isn't the ratings system (whether it lies with the BBFC or PEGI). As we have discussed here time and again, the issue is parents totally ignoring age ratings on games. Simply changing which ratings board is responsible won't solve that, although there may be a marginal benefit from the more familiar BBFC logos.

  • kavadias1981

    Posted Jul 8, 2008 12:14 pm GMT

    Wow, sounds like most publishers are against these changes, Maybe we should listen to the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

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