I know this is stupid but understand that people can go into the game disc and put something in there that will screw up the Xbox and make it have really bad problems...I don't know if any of you guys have a great gaming PC I suggest you stay with that because its something that will never be compared to consoles.
Specialty retailer sees share value dive more than 6 percent after a report suggested Xbox 720 could block used games.
GameStop shares tumbled today more than 6 percent after sources told Edge the next Xbox could block used games. According to the report, titles for the rumored platform will ship with activation codes and "have no value beyond the initial user."
This would be potentially problematic for GameStop, which generates a significant portion of its revenue from the sale of secondhand games and goods. The analyst consensus is that future platforms--from both Microsoft and Sony--will not block used games.
At press time, GameStop is trading down 6.75 percent to $25 per share.
Edge's report is, of course, unconfirmed. Microsoft has not commented on the speculation or even acknowledged any new platform beyond the Xbox 360. That being the case, rumors are swirling that the company will announce its new console during an Apple-style media presentation in late March, perhaps in conjunction with the 2013 Game Developers Conference.
It appears Sony will beat Microsoft to announce its next-generation platform, as the PlayStation maker is holding a briefing in New York City on February 20 where the company is believed to announce the PlayStation 4.
Developers don't get a cut in the sales of used games? Gimme a break. They got their money when that games was purchased the first time. They are not entitled to a penny from the used sale as that copy is no longer theirs.
Neither system will block used games. It would hurt them more than anything. And not only that, it would outright illegal in certain places.
Also going 100% digital won't work. Some places the speeds are piss poor and/or data caps are horrendous. People aren't going to want to pay for their game and then get gouged with overage charges that are highway robbery.
Why are people saying prices would drop if the used game market was gone? I see digital copies on the PSN store that are 20 dollars more than if you bought the physical copy.
Point is moot.
This is like the movie industry a few years back (10+ ??). Remember DIVX..the DVD player that required movies to be registered? It flopped. If it's true, new game sales will plummet as gamers become more select of what games they buy and the sales of the units will be so so slow b/c only a few will pay to be the new adapters of the new registration/activation requirements. Required internet connection..another adaption that will fail except, again, for those who are on the always on. Good luck MS..losing more of the market share of the gaming industry. Steve Balmer is an idiot! PC gaming will rule if the rumors are true.
Lol, so some people are trying to look on the bright side and be like "well this means they will lower prices so its still good for us!". Uh how about not a chance? So they just eliminated the used market....lets now lower prices and sacrifice the profits we banned the used market to gain back. If ANYTHING they would make the games more expensive. We are screwed anyways...I cant imagine not being able to rent the game for a reasonable amount.
Just match the pricing of digital games to meet the cost of the used game. Digital games, who have no packaging or brick-n-mortar expenses, are way to expensive.
@Kerrizma I know right? New digital games are sometimes £15 more expensive than physical. The hell? I could buy a new film and a nice ale for that much extra! Rip-off.
@The-Neon-Seal @Kerrizma Your idea already exists for PC gamers. It's called Steam sales. I just bought Sleeping Dogs last week for $10, and Hitman Absolution for $16. I agree though, they should lower digital distribution prices across the board. You know what happens when you start taking advantage of consumers? Piracy.
Assumptions are nice and all , but people should maybe look into this kind of matters more if they really want to understand shit and come up with "bright" ideas.
@Kerrizma Nice idea, plus the digital copies you can have it forever, if you lost you can download free again. They really need to low the prices just that.
Two things that would annoy me most are 1) being unable to play games that have gone out of print that I missed or couldn't afford at time of release and 2) being unable to to get some of my money back if the game I bought for the exorbetant price of £40 is rubbish.
It is sad but game makers have to go with this nickel and dime DLC to make up for lost profits. Which can be tied to used games sale taking away from there profit and funding. This is not a new idea there has always been talk among game makers about the used game problem they all face this is just one way they see of making a profit off the money they don't see from those used sales. Another was the online pass that sony started doing if you got the game new you got the pass with it but if you got it used and wanted all the extra stuff the online pass gives you would have to buy the pass in the PSN store for the game to make up for the loss they made of the used games sale.
These things were all created to make profits in sight of used games sales. With out used games most of these nickel & dime option would be cheaper but since so many people have faced up to if they want this special option in there game they will have to pay for DLC so I could see price drops on DLC but not more free DLC if they use a no resale system for there games.
If you can't understand it still think of it this way you need money for your self and to make your products better right. You make a game and 100 people buy it for $50 then they sell it to some one else for $35 then they sell it. Well thats 200 more people that got your game but you only made profit off of the first 100. Thats good for them but you missed out on 200 sales because of the used games sales that not only gives you less money but also affects your budget for newer and better games that those 300 people are asking for. Most games are financed and the financier judges if they will finance a game based on sales and other things but if the sales are low they could have trouble finding financing for there games because used sale do not count as profitable sales. So by buying used games you are hurting the gaming industry. That is why these companys will not be hurt if you don't by there systems because people like me that buy mostly new games will still be there playing there newer games.
What makes you think that? Shure the one that does not block used games might sell more systems. But these Companys don't make a big profit off systems sales they make it on software sales. Which brings us back to the fact they make no money off used game sales so there profits will drop compared to the Company that block used games and make profit off new game sales because that is all people can buy for that system. People are like o well if they block used sales I will go to PC thats fine but all PC games have a activation code that can only be used once. So if you are to cheap or poor to pay full price and buy it new which in turn supports the makers of the game don't buy any new systems and only play the older ones. The industry won't be hurt with out you because there not making any money off you anyway because all you buy are used games.
@hackerrei The diffrence between PC and consoles is that games on PC are more sensibly priced.
@The-Neon-Seal @hackerrei Because there's no licensing taxes. You point is also invalid due to the high costs of a rig. Please don't bring that BS that a medium rig costs as much as a console. If I wanted a PC that can play games like on a console than I would freaking get a console instead just for the exclusives. Everybody is talking how much more powerful a PC is and how well games look on it. A PC of that level crosses 1500 if not 2000. You may cut something from that price if you build it yourself from parts.
This is an issue that sadly ends in one of two ways. We are seeing a push for both, but ultimately, it has but a single ending. It is my opinion based on a summation of industry news that publishers like EA are draining the lifeblood from developers. They are squeezing them for every penny possible at the expense of gaming consumers. I do not want to see used games go away. I also do not want F2P to become a flagship for major titles.
Reality is that money always rules, and the fans come last. Look at Dead Space 3. What a crime that has become. You have a robot that can help you seek loot in the game. DS 3 offers you a gazillion ways to customize your weapons. Here is where they try to cheat you. The loot seeking robot is the equivalent of a Ford Fiesta in terms of options. To counter this, you can give them money to turn it into Lexus. $5 to increase the storage capacity, $5 to give a personality, and another $5 to speed up the loot recovery speed. What a crock! So after you spend $60, you need to drop another $15 just to get one piece of equipment to work in the game. FYI - that is just 3 of 11 day one dlc releases for the game. This doesn't even include the micro-transactions in the game for other rare pieces and parts.
There is a sad state of greed today that is fleecing gamers like never before. So you can see this slow attempt to convert AAA titles to F2P games laden with micro-transactions. If that does not work as I predict, the next step is to go after used games. They want you to pay full price for a game, not half price on a sale from GameStop that they make zero off of. I think removing the used market is wrong. But they are not going to pass up on that revenue any longer.
So the reality is clear. Gamers will get the shaft... again. How will it be? F2P, no used games, or both? What say you?
Used games has a market place, it doesn't exsist just to annoy MS & Sony, it opens up games to people who otherwise would not be able to afford it.
What they should look into it piracy, I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist over that, but how dare they tell us what we can & can't do with the games we purchase.
They will send people back to retro consoles if they keep coming up with these daft decisions.
i don't think ms will do it anyway if anyone does it it will be sony. in fact i see an oppotunity for one company to get ahead of the other if one blocks used but the other don't that will = more sells for the one that don't that means if sony do it but ms don't then a win for ms. if they both do it i can see a big boost for wii u and pc gaming there
These companies are so inter-dependent on eachother, all it takes is for one of them to do something shitty (MS, in this case) to fuck everybody. Either way, I could care less. I ditched consoles because of propietary hang-ups.
As my PC gaming tastes go, most of what I play have modest hardware requirements. So it's not a 'superior gaming experience' issue for me; it's a practicality issue. With bc being treated like a mortal sin, propietary controllers and services, hardware to play old favs on being discontinued, etc... Consoles are just very, very impractical anymore.
Microsoft / Sony do not care if people can't buy used games because they see no money from used sales. So if they made these new systems that would not be able to play a used game that won't hurt them the least bit. So the people that won't buy the system are people that buy used games ok well too bad for them. If your too cheap to buy it new then you will be out of luck. Personaly I think they will go with download only from now on to get around lawsuits since if you read the fine print before buying a DLC it states that it will only work for the account it is bought on. So every one stop crying and just buy the games new like every one did back before gamestops and second hand store were around. We might just start getting better games if people would stop being cheap. If you can not afford the games new then these company's don't need you because they won't be getting any money from you any way. Thats the way they look at it and they are right.
@hackerrei There will be a huge chunk of gamers that can afford it but will drop them like a bad habit! Me being one of them. There r a lot of options out there now. Hell this gens graphics could hold me another 5 years. So believe me they care. If not, this next gen will be an epic disaster!!
These company's do not care if some one that only buy used games buy's there system because they are not making any money off them any way. If your too poor or cheap to buy new then stick with used older system and games. As for the car Quote it's not the same think of buying a game as renting the game but owning the disk it comes on so the idea is still theres and not yours. I you made a song and sold it to 100 people but they all copied it and sold or gave it to 1000 people that is 1000 sales you will never see and after that would you try to make just as good of a song and not see any sales for it?
If Gamespot is smart they will start doing the FAIR thing and paying game publishers a percentage from used game sales - just like Blockbuster and others always did with video rentals. The used game market is killing innovation..........but rather than force Sony and Microsoft into imposing these restrictions, they should compromise and make it a win-win situation.
I am pretty sure that will never get of the ground since in europe there are lawsuits against steam already for not being able to sell your digital games. In europe law it says that you should be able te sell you're game license to someone else if you no longer have the need for it so this will never get a foothold in europe
@HADES2001 In Europe,did people just discover computers when 2013 started?? Since Im in diapers PC games ALWAYS had a fucking CD-KEY and in no way you could trade/sell them back. THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE FOR PC GAMES. If you dont like it,go buy a console or deal with it.
@GamerOuTLaWz when i was in diapers PC videogames didnt have cd-keys buy login-charts and whats with all the swearing ? been listening to to much rap ? if you know dutch just look at marktplaats.nl and tweakers.net you can sell you're steam videogames there now because they had cause its in the LAW. LAW is above any end user agreement or other garbage game companies force down you're troath
so do some research before you start shouting in CAPITAL LETTERS when you dont know what you are talking about.
If there is a block on used games on the next XBox then that will effect the sales of new games on release at full price. This because the only way to save money will be to wait until the new game price drops to an affordable level.
This would be a really dumb move by Microsoft restricting the customer to resell or exchange their game at a price they choose. What about customers who want to give the game away to a friend or relative ? That choice would be gone (unless you give them your new console to play it).
Its obvious Microsoft would love all new content to be entirely digital download so they can prevent after sales redistribution. This sucks man.Hopefully Sony and PC Gaming manufacturers will see an opportunity here and allow their devices to play used games.
@phatpantzz Or, the gaming community will finally stand together and collectively wait for price drops and force MS to drop prices at launch.
Especially if MS blocks and Sony doesn't, MS will be forced to drop prices to entice gamers to buy their console.
I said this before years ago and I shall say it again...
Why is it that Microsoft and/or Sony feel the need to punish the very people that have put them there in the 1st place?
It is the high street retailers that are to blame for this, not the consumers. We don't decide in selling second hand games for nearly the same price as new titles of the same name! Yes we decide to buy them, but is it wrong to want to pay less for a product that is already too expensive?
Does this mean, this will end these completely unfair Season Passes?
@punksterdaddy The very people who have put them there in the first place bought their games new. Don't try to look like an ignorant.
@The-Neon-Seal @Darnasian @punksterdaddy You do realise software sales cross billions do you? What good is purchasing a console if that's just it? No new software purchased? A portion of what they get as profit yes it is from hardware , but everything from paying the taxes , buying IPs , paying their employees salaries , maintaining servers , developing new games and tech and profit comes from software sales. The PS2 sold 150 million units. Have you maybe thought of the fact the software sales may have as well crossed 3 billion units sold?
What are you trying to say here?
Are you happy for this to happen? If you are then you are in the minority.
I didn't say I don't buy new games, most of them are/were brand new in fact. That is my choice to make.
If you actually read what I said, it is the STORES who have created this nonsense not us! As a consumer, of course we look for the best possible prices, don't you? Majority of the time, the STORES still charge at an expensive price for used copies, while charging only a few quid more for BRAND NEW RETAIL ones.
Now we have Season Passes, single use codes etc etc. Is this our fault, retail stores cash in on this?
What about taking your copy of a game around to your friends house to play? With these proposals, this would not be allowed to happen any more! No more borrowing your mate's new/old games, that you may not have.
Then there is the long term of it...? In 20 years time when people take a nostalgic look at these new consoles. They will need the same console, that the game was bought for? If it works, which is very unlikely.
If the code works off your gamertag, then fine but you will need constant access to the internet to access your own details in order to play a game. What if the internet isn't affordable or accessble to everyone? Which it isn't... or
Maybe I am being an ignorant!
@punksterdaddy @Darnasian I don't know how ignorant I am , but it's mostly the consumers fault because of this. I call it greed , you call it looking for the best price and option. Let me tell you that even I look for the best price or best deal , but the game HAS to be new. You think a game is not worth 60$? Fine , wait for price drops or for cheaper editions but at least buy it new. Games aren't mandatory to be bought day 1. Like I said , it's the consumers fault for being greedy because he is the one who allows those stores to cash on him. The consumer is the one that's the ignorant in this matter and let's himself to be fooled. It's just like saying you're a huge fan of band , but you don't even buy their music. The same goes for games. You call yourself a gamer? Nobody says you have to throw with money at devs , just get your games new and problem solved.
I have nothing against of used game sales for retro gaming , like 2 generations behind , but used sales for newly released games or games for this gen , it's a disgrace.
Don't even make me started on how stupid this DRM or constant internet connection is. I have nothing against blocking used games ,since I for one don't buy used. But don't make it mandatory to be logged into your account to be able to play the game.
Interesting fact: Did you know Ubisoft released patches to each and every one of their PC games and now you can play them offline?
Just saying , they finally redeemed themselves. They realised constant internet connection is BS!
These idiots comparing the used car industry to used games need to have their heads examined.
Buying a 2 year old car means you get exactly the same product and exactly the same quality as buying a new one off the floor, right?
Oh wait a second, CARS HAVE MILEAGE ON THEM, SCRATCHES, DENTS and a bunch of other stuff (e.g. has it been serviced properly) which means it is an inferior product at a lower price when compared to a new car.
A second-hand game has lost no value, it's the exact same game as the new one on the shelf, how the hell can you even imagine that the two could be compared?
Development costs have risen over the past 10 year (I know, it's astonishing), as has used game sales (Which is retailers "DOUBLE-DIPPING" since they're selling the exact same product TWICE, or more). My god people, almost HALF of Gamestop's PROFITS (Not revenue) came from used game sales - that's money that should have gone to developers.
How the hell does that NOT affect our industry? Think for a bloody second.
@Daemoroth You do realize games depreciate, correct? They are not a product that increases in value over time? You are aware of what the word "depreciate" means?
Furthermore, this sob story about how developers "deserve" to continue getting money from secondhand games is bullshit in plain English. Developers get paid when a new game sells. This is called "point of sale" at which time they get compensated for the work they did.
Once a game has completed its point of sale the developer is no longer entitled to JACKSHIT concerning any sales AFTER that. This isn't a conspiracy against game developers, but this is how ALL secondhand markets work regardless of the product being sold.
Games are NO DIFFERENT than any other entertainment product out there.
@Kravyn81 @Daemoroth You understand the term "wear-and-tear" correct? You know, that thing that makes you look at a 2000 Jeep and wonder what it's gone through and whether the cheap price is worth the risk? And then you look at a new Jeep and think it's of higher quality?
Looking at a used copy and a new copy of a game, there is no risk. I can install any of my old games and I don't wonder whether the save functionality is still working, or whether the last map has eroded and won't load anymore. I don't have to buy the same game every 5 years because my old copy doesn't grant me in-game resources anymore.
What you are talking about is demand, pure and simple, and yes, that does go down over time, quality has nothing to do with it.
Oh, and Gamestop IS entitled to profits for a game IT HAS ALREADY BOUGHT AND SOLD BEFORE?! What happened to your little "point of sales" theory? I thought that was it? But they already bought the copy from the developers and now they're selling it multiple times? And that's fine?! Really?
What a moron.
Why exactly is it that you feel that developers should get paid every time a transaction is made? As far as i'm concerned once you and I have exchanged money, meaning I paid you for whatever product (I'm not just talking about games.) I want you out of my life. Our transaction is done, you were paid now move along.
Why should you have any say as to what I do with the product after the fact? It seems to me that the only reason to stay connected is so that you can stay connected with my wallet. (This is assuming that I'm not actually pirating the game and selling copies of course.)
No one should keep getting paid for transactions for the life of any product. Regardless of how new or old it is. When an artist sells paintings he doesn't get paid again if the person he sold to sells his painting afterward. He doesn't get a cut, nothing.
And to go back to the car example, it does work. If I buy a 2013 Ford (insert your favorite model) and I never use it, lets say I store it, and I want to sell it the next year I can, granted even though it was never used no one is going to give me full retail for it because its still considered used, older and the value drops. But Ford cant come back to me and say "hey you owe us money, you sold a product we sold to you." They have development and overhead costs too but that's the price of doing business.
I get that you think its unfair that gamestop can continue to make money on a product over and over again but they are not stealing it. They pay whatever price it is they're business pay for the game, sells it to the consumer and then if the consumer wants to sell it back again, gamestop pays the consumer for it and then sell it some one else. (Pricing is a different conversation all together.) The business is being conducted between gamestop and the consumer. The developer was already paid for his part of the interaction, (or lack there of afterward.) if he wants to get paid again, maybe they should get into the used game business and give gamestop some competition.
@Kravyn81 @Daemoroth i don't think whether you own the software or you just have a license to use the software has completely been decided . the supreme court in the us has a case that should be decided by the summer and europeon court has said you own the software and can sell it . it will be interesting to see how steams case in germany will be decided . you might see steam , sony , MS forced to set up a service where you can sell your digital media
@Daemoroth They just have to find away around it period. I as the buyer will not have you dictate to me what is done with my property after it's mine! Our property rights have been infringed as far as I will personally allow. You give this type of power to complete greed driven dirtballs like Sony, MS, Activision, and EA and you're asking for it. The industry will turn into more of a monopilized pile of dump!
And I couldn't give two sh*ts about the BIG publishers, but if we keep on going as is, they will be the only ones left who are able to do business along with all the generic crap they shove into our faces.
PS - Retailers don't make games, I fail to see how them not being able to profit from a resale would have any effect on the creativity in the industry.
used movies provide the same content. i dont see the movie industry trying to restrict second hand movie sales....
your post fails, miserably.
@Kaisfate @Daemoroth Have you picked up a used DVD while the movie was at the cinema recently? No? Then your point fails. Used copies of movie DVDs show up MONTHS after the initial release, where every cent went to the studio.
My point stands.
Why do you think every godforsaken game has multiplayer forced into it? It's to try and prevent used copies of a good game (That may be story driven) show up in the first month, taking away profits from devs and handing it to retailers.
Think for one second!
@KaisfateActually, they did try that with Blockbuster when they used to sell older rentals for cheap. But they just lowered the price to the point where the price difference was just a dollar or two. If it wasn't for digital - the game industry could do it too. But with digital sales on the rise - it might be too late to try it now. It's a shame though because at a 20 dollar price point - games would fly off the shelves.
@Daemoroth Used DVDs often have scratches. Not sure how you missed that.
You also act as if the used market is a new thing. If I buy a second hand couch - should money also go to the manufacturer? Games are also priced the way they are to compensate for used sales. This is nothing more than publishers crying that they aren't making 9 billion in profits as apposed to 8...nothing more, nothing less.
@Daemoroth"In honesty, I hope only MS blocks used sales. This will force them to drop their prices in order to compete with Sony (To offer something in return)."
Except, that won't happen. Go to Xbox Marketplace now and look at the prices of their catalog titles. Now go to gamestop.com and look up the same titles used (and in some cases new). What you will see is a drastic difference in price for a the same product but without a physical copy of the game.
So, since it's happening right now - where's your proof that prices would come down in the future?
But this story is BS anyway - since the next gen won't be digital only, they can't possibly block the sale of used or 2nd hand games. They would be making sure that people won't be buying their newer consoles.
@Daemoroth @asendedtrunks The definition of a product isn't really fixed though, it's up to the consumer to decide what they consider the product and what value they place on that.
On the issue of used game sales though, I wasn't really commenting on things like whether they eat into profits or if second hand games should be allowed, I was just picking up on your opinion that used games have the same value as a new game which I didn't agree with.
I am primarily a PC gamer and I too never buy second hand games, unless it's an old classic that I can't find anywhere for new, I also often buy games at release rather than wait for a drop in price, because I think developers deserve it. I do however, rent games on consoles when it's a game I'm not sure I want to commit to buying (console games are almost double the price of PC games here).
Even though personally I try to never buy second hand games for my own reasons, I do think people should have the right to sell their games on for their reasons.
I'm sure that after the initial release months the impact is much less, but used games really eat into the devs revenue in those first critical months, and many publishers are making devs tack on multiplayer in an effort to prevent excessive used sales, where the game would have been better served with that money going into the main game (And the lack of story-focused games is pretty obvious).
In honesty, I hope only MS blocks used sales. This will force them to drop their prices in order to compete with Sony (To offer something in return).
I respect your opinion though and thank you for the level-headed discussion.
@Daemoroth @asendedtrunks You completely miss my point. To many gamers, the product isn't JUST the game on the disc. I speak from experience here as I personally put a lot of pride in having game cases with original manuals and maps etc. in very good condition. You are entitled to the personal opinion that the game on the disc is the only thing to matter, but for me and a lot of gamers, that isn't the case.
@asendedtrunks @Daemoroth Because scratches on a disc have no impact on the quality of the game on the disc (Unless of course it's scratched to hell, in which case the retailer usually replaces it if it was a used copy).
The disc is not the product. The game ON the disc is the product you are after, the disc is just a delivery method. PS3 and XBox have different types of discs, but the same game.
In contrast, the car IS the product, you bought the CAR. A scratch on the car is a scratch on the product. A car with 200k miles on it is significantly different to what it originally was, it rides differently, running costs are higher, things may be outright broken, the list goes on.
A used game where someone has played 100 hours on it has no change in functionality, the game is not affected by being used, so there is no loss in value. Demand, yes, but the game loads, has all features, your experience with the game is no different.
@Daemoroth A hell of a lot of gamers take a lot of pride in their game collections and do think a product with scratches, even if it works the same, has significantly less value than a brand new shiny box with all the various goodies inside. You even specifically mentioned scratches and dents when putting the car analogy down as not comparable; so why should dents and scratches on a car be allowed to lower the value of the product but not the same on a game?
In summary, unless you are talking about purely digital games (which can't be sold second hand anyway) then every point you made is moot.
@DomaineStickem Right, in the first week of release, yes, exactly, well done. Very eloquent post. Especially since the retailer will exchange it if your used copy somehow doesn't work...
Used game DISCS may have a scratch, does that mean your game can't save anymore? Is there a level missing? What's the difference between Halo 4 THE GAME used or new?
@Daemoroth @onelonehawk @Sevenizz ur a fucking idiot, please take that fan boy shit somewhere else, u sound like a moron, trying to brown nose ur way up the corporate ladder... Use games are worth less, scratches,/lower demand= lower price.. VG prices have very little to do with "quality" (ex C.O.D) but mainly the demand for the game
It doesn't matter. If i BUY a game means that game is MINE, to do whatever I want (sell, lend to my friends, burn...).
When you block used games you deliver less value to the costumer and he will not buy your product at the same price.
You video game industry babies should stop complaining about this. Every single industry in the hole human history survived used market (including youguys in the las 30 years), so why shouldn't survive now??? Greedy bastards...
@onelonehawk @Sevenizz @Daemoroth Once again, a used couch doesn't have the same QUALITY as a new one (Comparing the scratches on a DVD to wear is like comparing the PACKAGING of the couch that suffered wear and tear). Again, USELESS comparison. You're not playing the DISC, you're playing the game that's ON the disk. If a used game was missing a few missions or functionality from having been played too much, THAT would be comparable, but it doesn't, it functions the exact same way as the new one off shelf.
This has nothing to do with age and demand, this has to do with used games being the exact same quality as a new one...
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