Rumor: No HD-DVD games for HD-DVD Xbox 360?

I was kind of wondering if the Xbox 360 could be upgraded or whether you would have to buy a newer version, but if they're not going to release HD-DVD games, then is there much of a point to getting it at all? (By that I mean an upgraded 360 -- I still want a standard one, regardless.) I was thinking that I would get the newer Xbox 360 or upgraded Xbox 360 with the new drive for the purposes of movies AND games (the same reasons that I want the PS3 with Blu-Ray), but I think that if Sony goes ahead with Blu-Ray games, then Microsoft will have no choice but to produce HD-DVD games. Five years is a long way to go to the next generation of consoles, and that much of a storage advantage could definitely make a difference down the present road.

lol, I must say i agree.

kagemonkey, you seem not to understand that MS doesn't have the power to force anyone to buy its products. Your real opposition seems to be to people voluntarily choosing MS over Sony or Nintendo. Please tell me where MS has used "unfair" practices to "stifle" competition. And please, no quotes from the Justice Department or the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. What people like you, and many politicians, don't seem to understand is that MS got to where it is through the voluntary actions of people. To prove that used "unfair" practices, you would have to site a law the gives MS favorable treatment, or allows it to force people to buy its products. You can talk about "hype" or marketing all you want, but at the end of the day it is products that sell. If you don't think MS products are good, fine, don't buy them. If you are talking about OS, fine too. Go ahead and make your own OS--there is nothing is stopping you: not MS, not the gov't. OK, maybe the only thing stopping you is the hours and hours it would take to create one, assuming that you had a background in programming. But please let the rest of us make our own choices about what we consider beneficial to us. And finally, please tell me where all of Sony's innovations are related to gaming. It seems that as the PS2 got older, its franchises lacked innovation. Gran Turismo is just one example. With the exception of God of War (and even this was derivative to a certain extent), it is hard to find original titles on the PS2 that are what you would call "innovative" in the latter half of its life cycle. Since I also own a PS2, I have a sincere interest in seeing it produce some more innovative titles. However, in the last two years, my PS2 has collected more dust than it has games. I guess I should also mention the PSP. This is consider "innovative"? I would give innovative to Nintendo for the GB and the DS because they try to give you something different than, or to compliment what you can play on a home console. The PSP tried to emulate what you played in your living room on your HDTV (Sony brand of course) through your multi-speaker surround system (also from Sony), but with a worse picture and sound. And UMD movies? Does anyone remember the mini-disc? No? Thus, my problem with Sony is that their "gaming" machines don't seemed to be focused on gaming.

I don't think this is true, just because stupid Gamespot Assumes that it is bogus doesnt mean it is, that japanese guy might have just said that to get our hopes down, and then they'll say hey have HD-DVD in games, which will cause a bigger buzz

eric_k43606, you have to look at it in another perspective. Microsoft spends about 20% of their capital on Research and Development. If they had competition, they would have needed to spend at least 40% of their capital in order to stay competitive. It is because they used unfair business tactics to drive out others, they are able to save the extra 20% in R&D, which goes into their own pockets. Although Microsoft does provide some innovation, but if they did not exist, you would have seen more and better innovation. Billions of dollars are lost due to Microsoft's poorly engineered software. If they had competition, they would have spent more dollars to drive innovation. Right now, they are, in fact, stifling innovation.

Actully, I find it a wrong move for Mircrosoft, If you remember PS3 adobted the idea of DVD format for games before it can be done by any other console system.But from the looks like there DVD was right on the money, unfornately X-Box couldn't pull off the DVD idea from what we see now. But now they are going on a strategy that Nintendo did with the Gamecube and PS2. Gamecube stook to reg. cd (mini cds) and PS2 went up into DVD format. And PS2 made a success of 90 million units, Microsoft should of stook to the HD-DVD idea It's a shame too.. you had all these ppl pre-order for a system that had all this hype and for the HD-DVD format. And i'm gonna find that alot of ppl are gonna be disappointed about it now when they find this out. Hopefully if they want a refund cause of this action they better hope they can get it.

Yawn....I see the morons like Mechaboy and some other ones are still at it. Like I said before....since none of you are working for any of these companies, so your just posting your opinions....and you know what they say about opinions.....LMFAO

KageMonkey, It probably wasn't smart to so tightly integrate IE and the OS, and that is an unfair buisness tactic (violation of sherman act) which was corrected. But i think "stifleing innovation" is much more opinionated of a statement. They (msft) do make it difficult to compete in the market, but that is what capitolism is about. I can't imagine where we would be without the innovations of microsoft. And refering to the HD DVD idea, DVD's are most certainly a logical choice (i'm not stating an opinion). Even though using HD would be "innovative" I think that the lower production costs are more valuble at this stage, than integrating more technology. At least when the time comes, we will have the option to stay with DVD's, or invest a little more into Blu-Ray. (obviously we don't know the price of the PS3, but i believe there are many indicators pointing toward it being more expensive)

HRDKyoSaNim, shut the **** up. You're blinding xbox **** fanboyism is too much. Just do the world a favor amd cancel your internet account.

eric_k43606, Microsoft's tactics are, without question, unfair. Do you know how they won the browser war? They tightly integrated IE into the Operating System, so users cannot uninstall IE and was forced to use it. In fact, this unfair competitive behavior is what caused IE to be insecure. Your point about the abundance of security flaws due to market share is Microsoft PR. It's untrue. Look at the Apache web server, it has 80% of the market, and it is more robust and contains less flaws than Microsoft's IIS. Increased market share equating to the increased security problems is a complete lie. The reason why IE is so insecure is because Microsoft tightly integrated the browser with the operating system. To anyone with a brain, tying the browser and OS together is obviously a big mistake, because a compromised browser means control of your OS. Microsoft knew this, but they went ahead and did so anyway, just so they can dominate the browser market, without thoughts about the consumer. With security flaws left and right due to the integration with the OS, Microsoft unfairly took the browser choice away from the consumers. And to the consumer's worst interest, they have not innovated the browser ever since they became dominant player. Microsoft is detrimental to the market, and it is a proven fact.

I'm slow... learn how to spell you freaking c*ckbite. "comprEhend" "documEntation" Not everything that mrcrimus said is right anyway. Are you agreeing with everything he said? You have someone who works for GameStop telling you that when the PS3 comes out, it's selling for 600 dollars, and redmagic also points out that Sony has all ready said it's going to be expensive. He also points out that they've been cutting off some of these specs that Sony originally reported in order to keep the cost down. Or do you not read what you don't want to admit. It's also true that you guys have no idea what the final product is actually going to be like, just as other people have all ready pointed out. Right now, everything is hype and speculation. I read what mrcrimus wrote. It was very well written and informative. I commend him for doing as much. But like I said, that doesn't mean that what he's described are actually going to be the specs on the final product. In the meantime, you haven't given us anything but filth. Why don't you sit there with your thumb up your @$$ like you usually do and leave those of us who actually have something useful to say to ourselves. BTW, AsimLeonheart... The DC went the way of the dinosaurs because it were ahead of their time and everything was too expensive. If any system seems like it's going to follow in its footsteps, it's the PS3

HA HA HA!!!! LOL at Ms!!! XBOX 360 is indeed XBOX 1.5! What kind of next-gen console doesnt even has a next-gen disc format? Even the developers have been complaining about disc space by now. I read about it in an article by gamespot though earlier. PS3 IS the REAL next-gen console. And also Revolution because atleast they r providing us with innovation if not sheer horsepower. I hope XBOX 360 goes the way of the Dreamcast and MS learns their lesson.

I would not say that microsoft is "unfair." The job of any company is to beat out the competition. I would say as well that simply because there is no competition does not mean there is no innovation. Microsoft most certainly innovates as not to loose thier foothold. As to the comment about internet explorer, when a program has a 92% share of the market it is bound to be vulnerable to hacking and such. Put any other internet program in its place and its security would appear bad as well.

HRDKyoSaNim: Mechakucha wants to sound like a smart @$$, but he really doesn't know his @$$ from a hole in the ground. You just contradicted yourself in those two statements. You are either under the age of 15 or just slow, so I guess I'll have to spell it out for you. If you'd bothered to read mrcrimus' post you would have see just how stupid and wrong everything you've posted so far is. That was the purpose of my first post. My second post was in response to DarkSunLord's grade school quality rant about how we couldn't know anything because we don't work for "the mentioned companies." I used this little thing called sarcasm, beacuse it's obvious (or at least I thougt it was) that mrcrimus DID indeed know what he was talking about. I'm sorry your brain can't comprahend that unless it has a /sarcasm tag at the end. And the reason I didn't bother to post any real information is because no one would bother reading it except the people who actually allready knew the stuff. Besides, mrcrimus said pretty much all I had in mind (with good documantation too).

murderusone, and guess how Bill Gates and Microsoft got there? They drain money from consumers without providing a innovation. Look at how long it took Microsoft to produce a stable version of Windows. Look at the security flaws that plague Internet Explorer, Outlook, and Windows. Listen, Microsoft makes money because they have destroyed any competition through unfair competition, and can skimp on Research and Development. In other words, Microsoft is detrimental to technology. It doesn't matter if they are American, or if they are Japanese. Microsoft is a technology leader, and having them lead technology is actually causing progress to suffer.

People don't care what's american any more because people can tell who's american. This country's pot is now filled with sh*t. Enough with the specs. Enjor your 360 for all the realist and people that don't buy into the spec hype. There is now optical holographic storage with 120 Gigs per disc. The PS3 does not even have a release date! The End.

what can i say, I'm becoming disappointed in the lack of American pride that was so important to us all in the past. now it's just Microsoft this, Bill Gates that. Remember that both are american, and Bill Gates was born medium class. What he's done is amazing. give him a little respect. when he dies, he's giving 99.9% of his wealth to charities. And you ps2 fanboys call him greedy and mopey hungry. he lives in a two story house, not a palace. anyway, all you fanboys keep supporting the other guys and watch our economy continue to plunge. GOOD FOR YOU.........

Amen to that murderusone!!!

I am surprised at how many of you are really so gung-ho about giving all of your support to a game system made by non-Americans. You're basically saying, "golly, We americans are stoopid cuz them Japanese (nintendo, sony, sega, heck, every system maker since the 80's) guys make our only successful console look like dirt. I think that the current Xbox was great (hard drive, xbox live, custom soundtracks, system link, bump mapping, minimal load times). How's that for innovation?? Not to mention xbox had more space on their dvd-9 discs than ps2, but no one ostricized sony for it. No one said FFX sucked b/c it had more than one disc. 360's ultimate package is only $399. I work at EB, i know. PS3 is said to be most likely around $600 (starting at). Oh, and if microsoft hasn't put any attention into innovation and growth in gaming, then explain what the hard drive, live, soundtracks, system link, and all that is? NO ONE WAS DOING THAT BEFORE!!!

srew all of this, im still getting my 360 and ps3, period....

Mechakucha HRDKyoSaNim: mrcrimus's post is an excellent starting point. It contains some of the 'offical information' I was refering to. Isn't it amazing how much you didn't know? Mechakucha Yes, it's obvious that mrcrimus is just "talking out of his ass." You are indeed very smart person. You know what's really obvious; Mechakucha wants to sound like a smart @$$, but he really doesn't know his @$$ from a hole in the ground. You just contradicted yourself in those two statements. Not only that, you haven't actually offered any information. If you know so much, how come you don't actually say anything, just agree with/ disagree with/ badmouth someone. Next time, keep that bs to yourself.

You know its funny how many of your PS fan boys claim the PS3 is so much more powerful then the 360 yet none of you or anyone else has seen anything real from it. Everything shown so far has been CGI, no playable demos, sure supposive trailers but still none of them playable. Honestly have you learned nothing from the previous systems? Sony always hypes how great their system is with its power and speed and yet its always disappointing, you people are taking everything they say and believe it to be true and its quite ridiculous. From the specs I have seen the PS3 & 360 are about on paper, actually I don't know cause once again we have seen nothing real from the PS3 and thats how Sony always does it, they hype hype hype and then when we see it its nothing as promised. No doubt in my mind it will be great but not as great as some of you PS3 fan boys are making it out to be. I mean if you want to go off what Sony says then don't worry about hard drive space for that as I believe Sony even confirmed the hard drive would only be for media not games, thats if there was hard drive at all so in that comparison 360 > PS3 as 360 can use the hard drive for game saves and multimedia. Also if you haven't read the reports you can see that Sony has been deducting things from the PS3 to make it cheaper ie hard drive, USB slots, etc. and yet the president of Sony still says it will be 'expensive' so why is everyone saying it won't be? Honestly people don't make judgements on how great a Sony system is gonna be graphic and feature wise until you actually see it cause Sony always over hypes. Also I do remember reading many times that developers where saying that the PS3 would be the hardest system to make for cause of its supposive specs, I haven't heard anything about making it hard to develop for 360 games but then again coming from obvious fan boys its hard to take for real. The only thing that Microsoft needs to improve is better support from Japanese developers, if they get that then its a whole new ball game and Sony will be the one in trouble. As for the HD-DVD thing, again it doesn't really matter as neither Blu Ray nor HD-DVD will be standard for years to come if even at all, it still has proven nothing and it could bomb just like minidiscs for all we know. Like I also said in my previous post what does it matter anyways, so there are 2 discs instead of one big deal not gonna hurt anything, besides that most XBOX and PS2 games now are like what 2GB maybe a little bigger so honestly its not gonna matter. The only thing things like Blue Ray and HD-DVD are gonna do is jack up prices on games and the systems until it becomes standard which won't be for at least another 5 years if at all, seriously people don't make such a big deal out of something as minor as this besides there is always time to change their mind, if in fact HD-DVD does catch on then they can change their minds simple as that.

Yes, it's obvious that mrcrimus is just "talking out of his ass." You are indeed very smart person.

Well....lets just say....all of you guys are talking out of your a$$es.....why?.....Easy, none of you actually works for any of the mentioned companies....so,.... how the hell would you know what the reasons and the real technical datas are about. You are all little "know nothing fanboys"....be it XBox, PS3, or Nintendo....

I don't think that having to use more than one DVD is going to be as big of a deal as most people here are making it out to be. Personally, I'm happy that they are sticking with standard DVD format, simply because it is a proven format and can be used with ease by everyone. HD-DVD will be a good idea down the road though, say three or four years from now, when game size expands tremendously.

HRDKyoSaNim: mrcrimus's post is an excellent starting point. It contains some of the 'offical information' I was refering to. Isn't it amazing how much you didn't know?

HRDKyoSaNim, the processors are NOT just about equal. I am not sure where you got the idea that the XBox360 and the PS3 have comparable computing power, but it is probably from Microsoft PR, or from a fan who don't know much about electronics -- in fact, the GameSpot comparison is completely inaccurate and I have been trying to get them to change the comparison to reflect the actual data for a long time now. The specification of the machines clearly shows the superiority of the PS3. The PS3's Cell Processor is capable of 218 GFLOPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_3), whereas the XBox360 is only capable of 115 GFLOPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360). Theoretically, the PS3 has TWICE the computing power of the XBox360.

HRDKyoSaNim. Regarding the differences in format, the size is not the only factor. HD video requires much higher bandwidth rates to get a clear picture than a traditional digital picture as seen in most modern DVD movies and games. For higher resolutions, the system needs to be able to output video data at a much faster rate. Standard DVD has a numerical apature of 1.32 MB. http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa4.htm This means that the max read speed for the Xbox 360 for the disk is 15.84 MB/s. Blu-ray uses a standard numerical apature of 36 MB. http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa4.htm Now it is stated that there will not be any 1x BD roms, 2x is the base meaning 72MB/s can be streamed from the disk. As for how this effects gameplay, it allows programmers to have much more data coming off the disk at once, part of this will go to HD quality video, for BD movies, this is stated to be a minimum of 54 MB/s. So assuming they're planning on streaming live HD video in the middle of gameplay, that still leaves us an additional 16 MB/s for streaming off your gameplay data. So quite literally, the PS3, using a BD-rom could be streaming from the disc, an HD movie and still be streaming all the data neccesary for a Xbox 360 game. Somewhat frivilous but its an interesting point. As for cell vs the Xbox 360's multicore, they are both 3.2 GHz, yes. This does not mean they are equal however. Cell by design has a memory bus of 25.6 GigaBytes per second and an I/O bus of 76.8 GigaBytes per second. http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html Now the Xbox 360 multicore is quite impressive for a multicore, as fast as they've gotten out of the technology they used. Its bandwidth however peaks at 21.6 Gigabits per second (I will point out that that is bits intentionally and on the Cell it is Bytes intentionally). http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20051026/tc_zd/163534 This gives the cell alot of extra ability to take in and send out data. We're not done though. Xbox360 is 3.2 GHz spread across 3 cores. Once it hits that peak (which most processors never actually do, due to perfomance degredation from system setup and enviromental conditions), its capped. The Cell has a Primary Processing element of 3.2 GHz, this does not factor in the synergistic processing of the Synergistic Processing units. All 7 of these can take commands and parts of commands from the PPE and process them for it if it becomes too taxed and can store portions of data for it if it needs them to. Microsoft has pointed to the smaller L2 Cache on the Cell as an inferiority, what they ignore is a very inportant bit about the SPEs, they do not have Cache's of their own, but they do have "Local Stores" which function alot like a Cache but without all the nasty book keeping that can cause data to "expire" and require a rereading from memory. Each of these Local Stores is 256 Kbyte. Since there are 7 active SPEs on a system this expands the processor onboard memory to 2.25MB if you include the PPEs 512 KB L2 Cache. Xbox360 has 1MB of L2 Cache as its total memory shared by all 3 cores. Per IBM in the previously linked article, only half of this is running at the same clock as the cores, leaving the other half at half speed, which effectivly means it can only be accessed every other clock cycle. Now, what does all this mean to your games? Well, lighting effects, use millions of vector calculations per second, physics calculations in most games are at a point that one company has put a dedicated "physics card". Havok ( http://www.Havok.com ) and Ageia ( http://www.Ageia.com ) are the makers of a middleware Physics engines used by many developers. Due to the increased level of realism provided by these engines, Sony and MS have both made deals with these companies giving their developers access to this middleware. Ignoring the news regarding Xbox 360 not being able to properlly run Ageia's software since that has since been retracted http://www.extremenano.com/article/Ageia+Withdraws+Xbox+360+Comparisons/159632_1.aspx We have the SPEs able to run physics calculation for these engines while the core processor handles other commands, or alternately, the porcessor can send less important tasks to the SPEs so it can focus more on the physics calculations. Overall your looking at a difference in performance speeds and how many things the system can do at once. This matters less in a classic RPG and matters more in Real time games, be it FPS, RTS, sports titles or even FPRPG.

psh...wont help...DOWN WITH XBOX360!! GO PS3 GO!! GO BLU-RAY GO!!

^^ Mechakucha: Why don't you tell us all where to find this "official information?" I was looking at the comparison sheet posted here on GS. Is there somewhere else you were thinking of?

I find it funny how many people here have claimed stuff that hasn't been confirmed or is just plain wrong. It seems a lot of people know little to nothing about the next generation consoles/storage formats yet spout their opinions or ideas like they are fact. I could try to correct it all but it would just be a waste of time. All I'll say is don't listen to these idiots and go get the offical information and decide for yourself.

Wow MS is dumb, their way of getting customers to waste as much of thier money as possible on useless technology, so what if the films look a little better? How many films can you actually buy in the HD-DVD format? NONE!!!!

^^ utahnos you're right... my bad, I apparently talked out of my @$$ about the hard dirve space. PS3 hasn't said how much hard drive space they're putting on my machine. I went back and checked after reading your comment. Sorry about that. And you're right, I am frustrated because I hear a lot of PS fanboys talking trash about the 360, when they don't know how the PS3 is going to turn out. After all, the processors look to be just about equal. So what's the point of having more software storage space if it can only handle the same amount of information at any one particular moment. So you can fit 3 DVDs on one. If that's the only difference than big wooptie-freakin-do. If someone knows different about that please tell me... In terms of online content, I still don't think the PS3 will be able to match up with MS. Xbox Live has been the leader in this area and I think they will continue to be.

HRDKyoSaNim I think you wrote all that in a moment when you where frustrated that everyone was talking bad about the xbox 360, as you can see developers have much more money to make games with so you will expect to see huge games coming there by taking a big amount of space normal DVDs just wont do, another point is as much as you think itagaki is telling the truth that the ps3 is harder to develope for I heard many other developers saying that xbox 360 is the hardest one oh and as much as I know that you might think that the ps3 is somehow going to be more expensive you will start re thinking that in the future also you don't know how much the ps3 has of hard drive space so you can't say the xbox 360 has more and the same is with online futures I like both systems the same but I hate when people go on saying they know everything.

They're just trying to play down the fact that their software storgae capacity is not next generation. If teh demand is there, they will release a HD-DVD ROM. Like it won't be used for gaming. Please...

This is great news for Sony!

It seems do be true... just look at the specs posted for the Xbox360. Honestly though, in an interview with the VP of Microsoft or some big shot of the sort, he mentioned that virtually no game actually used more than 30% of the disc space from the DVD-ROM discs utilized in the original XBOX. I say, "if it ain't broke don't fix it..." Is all that bad that there's a game out there that requires 3 discs? I remember that FFIX was on 4 discs, and there were many games like that for the original PSX. Nobody complained then, why should we now. Besides which, I have my doubts about this guy/developer. How is that so many games have been able to fit on one disc, and this one needs three. Maybe his tema just doesn't know how to fully/or effectively utilize the space on the disc. Maybe because it's just a very long game... fine, who cares. I think MS did a good job choosing the route they did. After all, though this developer didn't like the 360, many other Japanese developers are raving about it. Just look at Itagaki of TN. He said that the 360 is very developer friendly and that he thinks that this new system that the PS3 is trying to run is too complicated. I could definitely see that being true. And, as people have pointed out, imagine the production costs, and the cost for the PS3 itself... If people are displeased by the $400 retail value of the suped-up XBOX 360 system, you might pass out when you see how much the PS3 might cost. And one thing remains, the 360 still has more hard-drive space and online functionality. You will in essense be able to use it as another computer. That's something that the PS3 will never have integrated into their system as well as the 360 does.

Honestly this doesn't even matter, most games don't even take a whole DVD disc now a days anyways so whats this gonna matter now even so who cares if its on 2 discs is that really hurting anything? Besides that having a HD-DVD drive will just drive the price up that much more and I don't think any gamer wants that. Also seeing as HD-DVD or Blu-Ray aren't even out yet or even proven to be successful in today's world then what does it matter? It still has to catch on and become standard for this to matter and that won't be happening for at least 5 years, kind of like HDTVs they aren't standards in todays world and won't be till at least 2009 so like I said no big deal there is plenty of time to change their mind or even come out with a new system before HD-DVD/Blu Ray even catch on. Lastly as for the 4 different systems thats just stupid, just don't even make a system that supports it, keep the 360 more gaming machine and forget about playing DVDs on it, kills the lens faster anyways.

kaito2, you don't quite seem to understand the implication of having Microsoft enter a market. Sony and Nintendo has been battling in the market through fair competition, each trying to innovate in their own way to take market share. Microsoft is known for their anti-competitive behavior. I am not suggesting that consumers should support one particular company, I am suggesting consumers support Sony and Nintendo, two companies that provides innovation based on fair competition. However, if consumers continue to support Microsoft, and once Microsoft becomes the dominant player, expect unfair competition where Microsoft will drive away competitors and stifle innovation.

Hmm.....bad move indeed.

I don't know whether to be mad or not. I'm telling myself that it won't matter, but I feel deep inside that it will.

Don't worry, life will go on

For the Xbox 360, Microsoft has drawn on recent research in computer graphics to enable a new method for game programming. In traditional games, all content is statically stored and generally immutable; that is, textures, meshes, and other game content is stored on a storage medium. As complexity in each rises, the demand for storage rises as well. A newer approach to generating content is utilised for Xbox 360 titles, a method referred to by Microsoft as procedural synthesis. Procedural synthesis, better known as procedural texturing, is an approach to generating game content via algorithms. For example, trees are one of the most complicated objects to render in a game, due to their organic complexity. A game with only one model for a tree will appear odd, as nature is far more random; the game loses some of its immersion as a result. Instead, a general recursive algorithm will generate the tree's model and textures, so that each tree looks different from the next, and do so with high efficiency. The Xbox 360's architecture was designed with this approach in mind. Procedural texturing is also found outside of the Xbox 360 in the advanced freeware FPS game .kkrieger, where such techniques have reduced the size of the visually stunning game to a mere 96 kilobytes. (http://www.theprodukkt.com/)

I agree, driving up production costs to support a new format that has little to no impact on the quality of gameplay doesn't make sense. PS3 will cost more to produce, and untill Blu-Ray becomes more mainstream, game production will cost more as well.

What worries me here is the kind of high def graphics we have been seing in screens. With full graphics such as these, on a standard dvd...need I say more?

Here's what MS wants to do - digital download of HD video. They would rather push this than a DVD based format and they see it as the future. I agree - why focus on a standard that might not be widely used when with Xbox Live and a decent broadband connection you can have access to whatever you want. Apple is driving this market forward with the iPod - MS may be slow, but they're not dense.

The DVD format won't hurt 360 sales nearly as much as the fact that Oblivion won't be available at launch. It's the only really interesting game that makes the 360 so enticing to buy for people not interested in racing and sports games.

How is that a moot point? 9 GB or 50GB. Nothing moot about it. It's not about playing HD-DVD movies... it's about having the luxury of all that space for games. The PS3 has 256MB system memory AND 256MB video memory, totaling up to 512MB. The Xbox has 512MB of ram shared between the system and video. That's the difference.

The reason MS is not adopting HD-DVD is that they don't know if it will even exist HD-DVD was supposed to be out this christmas but with all the hardware and 5 out of 6 of the major motion picture companies supporting blu ray it looks like sad times indeed for HD-DVD and since Microsoft hates Sony I seriously doubt that you will see any 360's with BD Rom drives So it looks like ultimately MS is stuck with DVD sucks to be them

that's logical