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A little insight on the Ratchet and Clan ...

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  • Level 50
    Strawberry Candy
    Posts: 14506
    Nov 2, 2007 1:26 pm GMT

    Here's more insight of how GS games are reviewed from a post I found from Jeff Gerstmann in General Games Discussion. He spoke on the R&C review which is highlighted at the bottom. He also bashes people who debate over HD-DVD and BluRay and says10's are definitely possible at GS. LINK

    Jeff wrote:

    Well, just to quickly address a few things I've seen in this thread...

    - Should games be given scores at all?

    Yes, most definitely. While some writers like to prattle on about a world without scores, that's a very narrow view. With the millions of people that visit this site in any given month, we encounter a lot of different types of player. Some people have all the time in the world to research a game and devour every single piece of content we produce. Others don't. Some people need that shortcut, and a score provides that quick check for some people that should either let them know that they probably don't need to know much more about a game or that they need to read more before making a purchasing decision. And make no mistake, that is the reason why our reviews exist: to assist people who are considering a game purchase.

    - Does giving a game a score promote fanboyism?

    Anything anyone does ever promotes the sad mentality that the Internet is fostering. The other day I read a full thread on another site of people arguing about Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD with the exact same idiotic fervor that some people use here to "discuss" video games: by turning message boards into Debate Club Amateur Hour. Think about how insane that is for a minute...

    "DUDE MY WAY OF WATCHING MOVIES IS SO MUCHMORE AWESOME AND MARKET SHARE AND ATTACH RATE AND OTHER BUSINESS TERMS THAT NO ONE SHOULD ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT!!!!"

    "NO WAY U SUCK MY WAY OF WATCHING MOVIES WILL WIN!!!! ALSO I OWN A MAC SO I ALSO HATE YOU BECAUSE I HATE WINDOZE! DID YOU NOTICEI SPELLED IT WINDOZE ISN'T THAT FUNNY BECAUSE IT MAKES ME SLEEP IT IS SO DUMB! ALSO: MICRO$OFT! SEE WHAT I DID THERE??????"

    ...it used to be limited to local pockets of people complaining about how the Amiga is better than the PC, but our connected world now allows someone to spew nonsense that the entire globe can read about topics such as "WHY I THINK FIREFOX IS RADICAL AND THEREFORE YOU ARE SUCK." Seriously? We're going to waste time arguing about which freely available web browser is better? The relatively anonymity of the Internet is making the world uglier every day, and it's a real bummer. Also, pointing out that "you can format a disk on an Amiga and still use the OS" was never a very good argument for why it's better than the PC. But all that is probably a little off-topic for this discussion.

    - Do review scores exist to help us figure out what to buy/spend our time on, or do they exist to validate our own opinions?

    See above. We write reviews to assist people looking to purchase them. If you want to use them to try to validate your own opinions, go for it, but you're using them wrong. We're not here to make people feel better about games they pre-ordered because they saw a sweet trailer. We're here to cut through the TV ads and trailers and all the other stuff out there designed to get you to buy games blindly, and help you spend your money wisely.

    "I do agree that a 10 should never be used, even though its in the scale. Main reason being that reviews and scores are subjective. A 10 would imply that a game is so great that everyone will love it and want to play it."

    Maybe on your own double-secret personal review scale. On ours, it means that the game couldn't be improved upon in any meaningful way, given current standards for that game's platform. As part of the review change, we relabeled 10.0 as "Prime" instead of "Perfect." The meaning of the score hasn't really changed, but too many people couldn't handle the concept of perfect meaning "perfect... given current standards for that game's platform and blah blah blah blah blah." It was sort of silly and overly confusing that way, I agree. We will give a 10 again someday, by the way. I occasionally see people saying "GameSpot said they'd never give another 10." That's insane and we've never, ever said that.

    But this touches on a larger point. Reviews are only a guide. They are not gospel. If you aren't filtering our reviews through your own personal likes and dislikes, you're eventually going to end up missing out on a game you'd like or buying one you hate. We assign reviews to qualified reviewers who are interested in that ****of game and, ideally, enter the review feeling cautiously optimistic about it. So when people say "I only play games that GameSpot gives a 9.0 or higher to," I'm a little bummed out. I mean, thanks for believing in us and all, but really, you're probably missing out on a ton of games that you'd love. If we give a game a 7.0 and it's a type of game that you usually love, you should probably read the review for more information. And while we certainly think extremely highly of a game that gets a 10, even that can't be a guarantee that it'll be one of your favorite games. Except for Tony Hawk 3, of course, which is one of your favorite games.

    To use the Review of the Moment as an example, when we give Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction a 7.5, we're not saying it's "average" or something. This isn't school, and a 7.5 doesn't translate to a C+. We're effectively saying that fans of these sorts of action platformers, and to an even greater extent, fans of the Ratchet series, will probably have a blast. But we're also saying that its appeal might not extendso far beyond that group due to issues mentioned in the review text.

    And, really, that's the part that makes the whole "disagree with review -> let's riot" mentality so silly. In most cases, we're actually recommending the games that we supposedly "hate" and "were paid to score poorly" or whatever.

    Edited on Nov 2, 2007 1:30 pm GMT Edited 2 total times.

    -The Adventures of LINKloco-

    Here's more insight of how GS games are reviewed from a post I found from Jeff Gerstmann in General Games Discussion. He spoke on the R&C review which is highlighted at the bottom. He also bashes people who debate over HD-DVD and BluRay and says10's are definitely possible at GS. [url=http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26011973&page=6]LINK[/url]

    [QUOTE="Jeff"]

    Well, just to quickly address a few things I've seen in this thread...

    - Should games be given scores at all?

    Yes, most definitely. While some writers like to prattle on about a world without scores, that's a very narrow view. With the millions of people that visit this site in any given month, we encounter a lot of different types of player. Some people have all the time in the world to research a game and devour every single piece of content we produce. Others don't. Some people need that shortcut, and a score provides that quick check for some people that should either let them know that they probably don't need to know much more about a game or that they need to read more before making a purchasing decision. And make no mistake, that is the reason why our reviews exist: to assist people who are considering a game purchase.

    - Does giving a game a score promote fanboyism?

    Anything anyone does ever promotes the sad mentality that the Internet is fostering. The other day I read a full thread on another site of people arguing about Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD with the exact same idiotic fervor that some people use here to "discuss" video games: by turning message boards into Debate Club Amateur Hour. Think about how insane that is for a minute...

    "DUDE MY WAY OF WATCHING MOVIES IS SO MUCHMORE AWESOME AND MARKET SHARE AND ATTACH RATE AND OTHER BUSINESS TERMS THAT NO ONE SHOULD ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT!!!!"

    "NO WAY U SUCK MY WAY OF WATCHING MOVIES WILL WIN!!!! ALSO I OWN A MAC SO I ALSO HATE YOU BECAUSE I HATE WINDOZE! DID YOU NOTICEI SPELLED IT WINDOZE ISN'T THAT FUNNY BECAUSE IT MAKES ME SLEEP IT IS SO DUMB! ALSO: MICRO$OFT! SEE WHAT I DID THERE??????"

    ...it used to be limited to local pockets of people complaining about how the Amiga is better than the PC, but our connected world now allows someone to spew nonsense that the entire globe can read about topics such as "WHY I THINK FIREFOX IS RADICAL AND THEREFORE YOU ARE SUCK." Seriously? We're going to waste time arguing about which freely available web browser is better? The relatively anonymity of the Internet is making the world uglier every day, and it's a real bummer. Also, pointing out that "you can format a disk on an Amiga and still use the OS" was never a very good argument for why it's better than the PC. But all that is probably a little off-topic for this discussion.

    - Do review scores exist to help us figure out what to buy/spend our time on, or do they exist to validate our own opinions?

    See above. We write reviews to assist people looking to purchase them. If you want to use them to try to validate your own opinions, go for it, but you're using them wrong. We're not here to make people feel better about games they pre-ordered because they saw a sweet trailer. We're here to cut through the TV ads and trailers and all the other stuff out there designed to get you to buy games blindly, and help you spend your money wisely.

    "I do agree that a 10 should never be used, even though its in the scale. Main reason being that reviews and scores are subjective. A 10 would imply that a game is so great that everyone will love it and want to play it."

    Maybe on your own double-secret personal review scale. On ours, it means that the game couldn't be improved upon in any meaningful way, given current standards for that game's platform. As part of the review change, we relabeled 10.0 as "Prime" instead of "Perfect." The meaning of the score hasn't really changed, but too many people couldn't handle the concept of perfect meaning "perfect... given current standards for that game's platform and blah blah blah blah blah." It was sort of silly and overly confusing that way, I agree. We will give a 10 again someday, by the way. I occasionally see people saying "GameSpot said they'd never give another 10." That's insane and we've never, ever said that.

    But this touches on a larger point. Reviews are only a guide. They are not gospel. If you aren't filtering our reviews through your own personal likes and dislikes, you're eventually going to end up missing out on a game you'd like or buying one you hate. We assign reviews to qualified reviewers who are interested in that ****of game and, ideally, enter the review feeling cautiously optimistic about it. So when people say "I only play games that GameSpot gives a 9.0 or higher to," I'm a little bummed out. I mean, thanks for believing in us and all, but really, you're probably missing out on a ton of games that you'd love. If we give a game a 7.0 and it's a type of game that you usually love, you should probably read the review for more information. And while we certainly think extremely highly of a game that gets a 10, even that can't be a guarantee that it'll be one of your favorite games. Except for Tony Hawk 3, of course, which is one of your favorite games.

    To use the Review of the Moment as an example, when we give Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction a 7.5, we're not saying it's "average" or something. This isn't school, and a 7.5 doesn't translate to a C+. We're effectively saying that fans of these sorts of action platformers, and to an even greater extent, fans of the Ratchet series, will probably have a blast. But we're also saying that its appeal might not extendso far beyond that group due to issues mentioned in the review text.

    And, really, that's the part that makes the whole "disagree with review -> let's riot" mentality so silly. In most cases, we're actually recommending the games that we supposedly "hate" and "were paid to score poorly" or whatever.

    [/QUOTE]

  • Level 22
    Blaster Master
    Posts: 3721
    Nov 2, 2007 1:29 pm GMT
    too bad on a lot of school scales, a 7.5 would be a C-, and even on the 90/80 scale, it will still be a normal C. Poor old Jeff must not have been too bright in his younger days.
    too bad on a lot of school scales, a 7.5 would be a C-, and even on the 90/80 scale, it will still be a normal C. Poor old Jeff must not have been too bright in his younger days.
  • Level 46
    Mutoid Man
    Posts: 57461
    User is Online
    Nov 2, 2007 1:30 pm GMT
    in before the "Lemspot, gamespot is baised........TP and MP3 are underrated comments"

    xDantex's Gamer card

    GPU: GTX 275 , CPU: i5, ram: 4gb ddr3

    in before the "Lemspot, gamespot is baised........TP and MP3 are underrated comments"
  • Level 45
    Mishima Zaibatsu
    Posts: 7414
    Nov 2, 2007 1:31 pm GMT
    LINKloco wrote:

    And while we certainly think extremely highly of a game that gets a 10, even that can't be a guarantee that it'll be one of your favorite games. Except for Tony Hawk 3, of course, which is one of your favorite games.

    I lol'd.

    [QUOTE="LINKloco"]

    And while we certainly think extremely highly of a game that gets a 10, even that can't be a guarantee that it'll be one of your favorite games. Except for Tony Hawk 3, of course, which is one of your favorite games.

    [/QUOTE]

    I lol'd.

  • Level 41
    Thunder Force
    Posts: 15772
    Nov 2, 2007 1:31 pm GMT
    good thread

    _______________________________
    - The Halo Union | Boycott Eidos!! -

    - Proudly Enlisted in United States Air Force -

    good thread
  • Level 24
    I Feel Asleep!!
    Posts: 5348
    Nov 2, 2007 1:33 pm GMT
    GS gave R & C way too low of a score, plain and simple! Everywhere except them gave from 9.0-9.5. I think that says it all.

    GS gave R & C way too low of a score, plain and simple! Everywhere except them gave from 9.0-9.5. I think that says it all.
  • Level 20
    Metal Slime
    Posts: 4498
    Nov 2, 2007 1:34 pm GMT
    how did Zelda TP and MP3 got AA on GS ?

    I own a Ps3,360,PSP, DSand wii i am KING!!!

    how did Zelda TP and MP3 got AA on GS ?
  • Level 33
    Goombella
    Posts: 2189
    Nov 2, 2007 1:34 pm GMT
    But the most of the "issues"(too much variety?) in the Ratchet review, weren't actually issues.



    But the most of the "issues"(too much variety?) in the Ratchet review, weren't actually issues.
  • Level 31
    Ippon!
    Posts: 5101
    Nov 2, 2007 1:35 pm GMT

    mtradr43 wrote:
    too bad on a lot of school scales, a 7.5 would be a C-, and even on the 90/80 scale, it will still be a normal C. Poor old Jeff must not have been too bright in his younger days.

    Thanks for proving Jeff's point, and within two posts. Awesome. Maybe you should read it again.

    Edited on Nov 2, 2007 1:35 pm GMT

    PSN ID: Buddah23

    Wii Owner

    [QUOTE="mtradr43"]too bad on a lot of school scales, a 7.5 would be a C-, and even on the 90/80 scale, it will still be a normal C. Poor old Jeff must not have been too bright in his younger days.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for proving Jeff's point, and within two posts. Awesome. Maybe you should read it again.

  • Level 28
    Bionic Commando
    Posts: 10954
    Nov 2, 2007 1:36 pm GMT

    "You can't beat 100 percent" "You can't beat 100 percent"

    "You can't beat 100 percent" "You can't beat 100 percent"

  • Level 17
    Minus World
    Posts: 9657
    Nov 2, 2007 1:39 pm GMT
    Yea, I really see in Aaron's bio he likes Rachet and Clank type games
    Yea, I really see in Aaron's bio he likes Rachet and Clank type games :|
  • Level 27
    Sheng Long
    Posts: 448
    User is Online
    Nov 2, 2007 1:39 pm GMT

    casey7672 wrote:
    GS gave R & C way too low of a score, plain and simple! Everywhere except them gave from 9.0-9.5. I think that says it all.

    No, "everywhere" except them did not give it 9.0-9.5. Gamespotīs score isnīt even the lowest anymore.

    [QUOTE="casey7672"]GS gave R & C way too low of a score, plain and simple! Everywhere except them gave from 9.0-9.5. I think that says it all. [/QUOTE]

    No, "everywhere" except them did not give it 9.0-9.5. Gamespotīs score isnīt even the lowest anymore.

  • Level 26
    Cyber-Lip
    Posts: 3890
    Nov 2, 2007 1:41 pm GMT
    but sadly most people here dont realize that anything above a 7 is worth playing, they just see anything below an 8 as total crap... so sad really

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I like video games thats why I stopped posting in system wars

    but sadly most people here dont realize that anything above a 7 is worth playing, they just see anything below an 8 as total crap... so sad really
  • Level 33
    Goombella
    Posts: 12820
    User is Online
    Nov 2, 2007 1:42 pm GMT
    Jeff owned the fanboys. He was just trying to do it for street cred so people forget about the games he flopped
    _________________________________________________




    Jeff owned the fanboys. He was just trying to do it for street cred so people forget about the games he flopped :P
  • Level 44
    Violence Fight
    Posts: 23442
    User is Online
    Nov 2, 2007 1:43 pm GMT

    Heil68 wrote:
    Yea, I really see in Aaron's bio he likes Rachet and Clank type games

    just because he didn't review them doesn't mean he doesn't like them.

    Challenge my brute if you dare.

    http://ontain.mybrute.com

    [QUOTE="Heil68"]Yea, I really see in Aaron's bio he likes Rachet and Clank type games :|[/QUOTE]

    just because he didn't review them doesn't mean he doesn't like them.

  • Level 34
    Paramecium
    Posts: 5257
    Nov 2, 2007 1:44 pm GMT

    I don't think Gamespot will ever give another 10. It's stupid that it's even there... especially with the 10 point scale. Because if it's a 10, that doesn't necessarily mean it would have been a 10 on the old review scale.

    Which is why .5 increments is a stupid idea.

    I don't think Gamespot will ever give another 10. It's stupid that it's even there... especially with the 10 point scale. Because if it's a 10, that doesn't necessarily mean it would have been a 10 on the old review scale.

    Which is why .5 increments is a stupid idea.

  • Level 33
    Goombella
    Posts: 4825
    User is Online
    Nov 2, 2007 1:45 pm GMT
    Jeff wrote:

    The meaning of the score hasn't really changed, but too many people couldn't handle the concept of perfect meaning "perfect... given current standards for that game's platform and blah blah blah blah blah." It was sort of silly and overly confusing that way, I agree. We will give a 10 again someday, by the way. I occasionally see people saying "GameSpot said they'd never give another 10." That's insane and we've never, ever said that.


    Does that mean Crysis will get a 10 ?

    [QUOTE="Jeff"]

    The meaning of the score hasn't really changed, but too many people couldn't handle the concept of perfect meaning "perfect... given current standards for that game's platform and blah blah blah blah blah." It was sort of silly and overly confusing that way, I agree. We will give a 10 again someday, by the way. I occasionally see people saying "GameSpot said they'd never give another 10." That's insane and we've never, ever said that.


    [/QUOTE]

    Does that mean Crysis will get a 10 ? :D

  • Level 38
    DJ Boy
    Posts: 7367
    Nov 2, 2007 1:46 pm GMT
    "We're effectively saying that fans of these sorts of action platformers, and to an even greater extent, fans of the Ratchet series, will probably have a blast. But we're also saying that its appeal might not extendso far beyond that group due to issues mentioned in the review text."

    He makes it sounds as if the review score is a measure of how mass market a game is and that any niche title cannot possibly garner a particularly high score.
    The VG Press
    "We're effectively saying that fans of these sorts of action platformers, and to an even greater extent, fans of the Ratchet series, will probably have a blast. But we're also saying that its appeal might not extendso far beyond that group due to issues mentioned in the review text." He makes it sounds as if the review score is a measure of how mass market a game is and that any niche title cannot possibly garner a particularly high score.
  • Level 21
    Rescue Ranger
    Posts: 3206
    Nov 2, 2007 1:50 pm GMT

    I think a lot of people missed the point of what he was saying. They don't give scores to merit how great the actual game is. They are more concerned about whether the game is good value for your money. They mentioned that due to the amount of variety in the game, many of the elements added to the game felt out of place and unnecessary. They never complained solely that variety was the issue.


    I think a lot of people missed the point of what he was saying. They don't give scores to merit how great the actual game is. They are more concerned about whether the game is good value for your money. They mentioned that due to the amount of variety in the game, many of the elements added to the game felt out of place and unnecessary. They never complained solely that variety was the issue.

  • Level 21
    Rescue Ranger
    Posts: 3206
    Nov 2, 2007 1:52 pm GMT

    yodariquo wrote:
    "We're effectively saying that fans of these sorts of action platformers, and to an even greater extent, fans of the Ratchet series, will probably have a blast. But we're also saying that its appeal might not extendso far beyond that group due to issues mentioned in the review text." He makes it sounds as if the review score is a measure of how mass market a game is and that any niche title cannot possibly garner a particularly high score.

    Or he's saying that people generally not into the R&C games probably wouldn't find much value in the game.


    [QUOTE="yodariquo"]"We're effectively saying that fans of these sorts of action platformers, and to an even greater extent, fans of the Ratchet series, will probably have a blast. But we're also saying that its appeal might not extendso far beyond that group due to issues mentioned in the review text." He makes it sounds as if the review score is a measure of how mass market a game is and that any niche title cannot possibly garner a particularly high score.[/QUOTE]

    Or he's saying that people generally not into the R&C games probably wouldn't find much value in the game.

ForumsSystem Wars › A little insight on the Ratchet and Clan ...