And that's why most of these people don't have girlfriends! lol. I play games since they appear and the sexism in the game industry is the worst i even seen, sadly... If you notice in the video and in the comments below, you barely see anyone defending women looool, that's what a call sexism... The main problem about this is; most of the gamers are people with no social life, and when they discover some girl playing some game, they can't threat them like they deserve... And they start harassing them or being a asshole with them also. Most of these people can't understand they are there to play GAMES! Not for getting boyfriends! I know all of this because i play games for years, and i have 2 sisters and they are gamers also because of my influence. And all trough this years i notice all of that, in games chats, team speaks and so on, with many girls! And don't tell me is their fault because isn't! 99% of times they don't even do nothing...
Feedbackula - Sexism special
- Nov 30, 2012
Against his better judgement Johnny wades into the raging gender debate sparked by the #1reasonwhy hashtag.
I can understand why there are more male lead characters in video games than female lead characters, one reason might be the demographics of the gaming community being mostly conformed by men (excluding the casual games maybe where things might be more balanced but I really don't know the numbers) So if you know your audience is mostly man from ages 15-50 you'll end up targeting them and sexist or not themselves most man have an akin mentality regarding some aesthetics, subjects, fantasies and that will be obviously show in a product aimed for that kind of gender.
On the other hand more male gamers translate into more guy showing interest in developing games. (let's say that 8% of gamers regardless of gender become developers, if the sample of male gamers is higher than that of the female it'll mean more man becoming developers than woman)
Another important thing is that the industry cannot be apart from the world it's immersed, it's culture and it's history, don't get me wrong I'm not saying "the world is like that so video games must be too" not at all, If a person plays well, is a good programmer, designer, composer, engineer or whatever it's gender is as irrelevant as his personal taste regarding diet or regular coke. But when you have 500 male developers resumes and 10 female developers resume on your desk is statistically improbable that those 10 from one sample are going to the most qualified It's possible? Yes. It's probable? Not by a long shot (the numbers are just to make a point and not in any way real nor is the ratio of male/female devs)
So by the end of the day you have a male predominant media = more guys playing =more guys going into dev = more guys applying for this kind of jobs = more guys in the industry = more profit in making "men" the targeted audience = more macho gunning, spying, stealthing, role playing, sword handling, wizardly, whatever the f... thing as lead chars in games and a huge amount of lame, dull, sexualified, love interest, stereotypified, bosom showing, knicker armored, secondary female chars = vicious circle.
Of course not all games are like that, old Samus, Chell from Portal, the new Lara Croft, and many more were brilliant characters made as strong, independent, intelligent and yet as human and real as any woman can be and even the most macho-guy could enjoy and learn from the experience, but non the less at the end of the day It's easier to make a male character knowing most of your audience will "empathise" with it than taking the risk of making a strong female lead character, even when I think it shouldn't be a risk... we know that in this world it is...
PS. Sorry for the long post and bear In mind that english isn't my mother tongue so if you got this far then I'm very sorry about any mistake I made and thanks for reading.
@llSierra Some good observations, but I'd like to correct you on a few numbers. The idea that people buying video games are overwhelmingly male is simply not true anymore, although it certainly was in t he recent past. Take a look at the 2012 ESSA survey here: http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2012.pdf
A few numbers for you from this report:
1. "Of the most frequent game purchasers, 52% are male and 48% are female"
2. "Adult gamers have been playing for an average of 14 years; males average 16 years of game play, females average 12 years"
That was a 2012 report. It is simply no longer true that women gamers don't exist, or that male gamers vastly outnumber female gamers. What I think is now more true is that:
1. Male gamers are more vocal on community forums, message boards and other online communities such as Reddit, etc
2. Female gamers' contributions to these forums are on the rise, but are still outnumbered by the number of contributing males.
This is not a bad thing in and of itself, of course. The better question to ask now, IMHO, is now, "given the almost 50/50 split between male and female gamers, why is the games development industry still overwhelmingly male-dominated?" and "Why there little emphasis on the development and equal representation of women in games development?"
I think that the idea that men = gamers, therefore protagonists = men is an outdated concept from way back when technology did not have the capacity to deal with complex storylines or characters, and it WAS mostly men who played, and games DID appeal to the white-knight mentality of "go save the princess".
But we are moving so far past that now, and it's time the rest of the industry (and us gamers too) caught up with this.
If not I think it's clear in my post that I'm talking about the "hardcore" community, being that the one that really takes part in forums, discussions and ever hardware related stuff., because that's what I thought.
I mean I thought that even if more girls are playing "casual" games (Some Wii games, cellphone games, some handheld devices games and such) the "hardcore" community is mostly male gamers and not that 50/50 those numbers show, I would be very surprised if regarding the latest AAA games that ratio is still 50/50 (ie: Taking Deus Ex: Human Revolution until now as sample).
Then again I might be wrong and if that's the case... well I'm very glad to be.
@llSierra I suppose it depends on what you mean by "causal" vs "hardcore" demographics. It is absolutely true that for many years, women fall more into the category of playing puzzle games (such a sudoku, trivia, etc) than the more action-oriented games (such as Deus Ex: HR), but this seems to be more a case of perceptions than actual desire. Action games have been viewed as the man's domain, with the obligatory girl-friendly sidekick character tacked on so the girlfriend can join in - but the emphasis has been on male-targeted action gaming.
This is what I was driving at in my earlier post - it is THIS attitude that is shifting among gamers. Women are stepping up to play the same type of games as men. The Nielsen Report of 2009 found the following:
?The single largest group of personal computer video game players is females ages 25 to 54, accounting for approximately 29 percent of total personal computer game players?"
That's a huge margin - and that was in 2009. Four years later and this number will have grown beyond these stats.
Let's take another example - Mass Effect. 18% of players (both male and female) play as the female Commander Shephard rather than the male. Yep - regardless of the sex of the player, almost 1 in 5 gamers voluntarily play the female version of the hero in a trilogy saga that runs into the hundreds of hours of gameplay. Again, that's a big margin for an industry whose perceptions of who plays games still doesn't match the reality of who is actually playing them.
This brings me to my second point - one which your original argument doesn't address - men who play women characters and women who play male characters. There is an - in my opinion unfounded - assumption that men don't like to play female characters and that women aren't interested in playing male characters. I respectfully call BS on this. Go onto any major gaming forum (like Reddit's r/truegaming for example) and search for this kind of debate. The forums are littered with male gamers who insist that it's the character not the gender that matters. Now this is of course anecdotal, and anecdotes are not data, but the gaming industry is reacting to the experiences of its customers, so it's worth consideration.
To conclude, the number of women playing "proper" games is on the rise as prejudices towards games as things "just for boys" start to disappear. Anyway, there's my thoughts, yours in response are welcome. Looking forward to the discussion!
@green_abobo One reason why you're single?
Simply put, no woman wants to date/bone a misogynistic prick who makes broad generalisations about women.
Meh I don't care if Women want to get into the game industry in fact I'm more Concerned with them moaning about dumb things like ''why cant I play as a female soldier in this game?'' when they should be asking ''why am I playing this steaming pile of turd and not complaining about why it is a steaming pile of turd.''
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@HazeChimp OOH. OOH.
Perhaps he's a decent human being who does it because he thinks it's right, and you're just a misogynistic dickhole.
Women are not meant to do the job of the Man and vice versa. That's why women are not hired in military as much because it's the job of a man to do that. Women are always meant to support the man who's life would not achieve anything without their back up. I suggest we study the characteristics and functionality of the body then we decide. So my point is, equality doesn't do them nor us justice.
Two giant thumbs up for this - Sexism in the industry is ridiculous. Listening to those comments, you'd think they had come straight out of the 20's. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of feminism, but I AM a fan of equality. Women should be no more chastised for wanting to play or makes games than men should be for wanting to be a nurse or wearing a dress - people should do what they're good at and what feels good. All these arbitrary gender boundaries are pointless, and do not hold the world together.
@SS3_VegetaYou might wanna watch the whole video again..... Sexism in the industry isn't just about equality, they are arguing about the objectification and sexualization of women in games. That and verbal slander in voice chat.
oOhedzOo O.o last I checked, having bewbs doesn't make you incapable of shooting a gun, you die just the same man or woman lol.
If gaming is to ever become completely unisex, that way of thinking has to go. This is about the maturity and growth of a popular pastime, not getting a big fat paycheck by catering to demographs.
I'm not saying a pixelated wire frame with EXTRA careful details to precious *ahem* "features" is something that has to go, but it shouldn't have to be in every game you lay hands on.
Lol I know it's a bit late but I just watched this and when the video finished, the video links were all for DoA5 with the 1.03 bikini stuff being the next video. #irony
I love this so much. I can't even begin to describe how happy I am, thank you so much for making this! I'm going to go back and watch your BRINK video, too. Sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
And right after this comes up "Dead or Alive 5 - 1.03 Trailer" with a screen capture of a brunette in a very small swimsuit. And underneath the headline is "GS News - Fans Demand Bigger Boobs"
Hello Pot, please meet Kettle!
Can't make this stuff up.
Im always trying to get my girlfriend into games but allas she's never interested ...guess like im never interested in chickflicks. That's not the point here tho. This all stems back to men assuming roles they believe to be expected of them, that alpha male, dominating thought process most men have that at times have pushed humanity forward but more often then not at an expense that pushes morality back. I don't think women would argue that the majority of women today are not interested in the games industry, but that they are a minority is no basis for the argument to treat them any different. Like the movie + music industry, novel authors and art, their creative work can easily be found among some of the best in the world. To think of an example of a great female singer or book writer is easy and no one makes derogatory terms about their tallent, vision or buisness sense because they are women. So for those women who actually are interested in the gaming industry, it should never matter that they are women. End of the day who benifits from great creative work? Everyone. So why should it matter if who made it is female of male?
Wow this episode is really one sided, in my experience the blame is not so one sided like this episode is. I feel very bad for women that are really sexually descriminated against, it's not fair and it must stop. But I have also seen women take advantage of this and that's not fair either, it has really hurt the women that do deserve our support and compassion. Equality has to be equal or it will never be a reality.
@digitaltiger Wow yeah so until every single women falls in line then, and only THEN, should men start to be anything but complete dicks. Because it's not like there are far more than a *few* men who take advantage of the situation, and just make this situation exist at all, which is totally fair and not one sided at all. So yeah equality should be equal and not give women a much harder time than men just because of some bad apples.
My college class (computer science), from 40 students, had 3 girls... That's probably a reason, maybe... :)
@meatz666 Possibly because women do not feel welcome in the class because they have been taught from a young age that geek stuff is for men? Could have something to do with it. Sometimes people are not interested in something because they never had the chance to be interested, or that interest was stamped out at an early age. Do you really think most girls growing up in the 90's liking computer games would be very popular? I mean guys certainly aren't! And its okay if we like them.
Why hire women into an Industry for the sake of hireing women, why not just hire women on the sake of them actually being good at the job? If you want to stamp out sexism, don't look at gender look at their strengths a game developing...
I hate sexism as much as the next woman, but if I was given a job just because they didnt want their developing team becoming a sausage fest, I'd be pretty fucking disappointed. You want equality don't paint everything black and? white. Look for the grey between.
Excellent feedbackula. It is always a joy to watch Johnny ridicule the morons who frequent these forums with their frankly appalling attitudes.
If the comments shown give any type of idea or peek into the gaming community, it's: despite the fact the average gaming age is 30, most have the mental capacity of a 10 year old
I'm not really sure what the issue is about. Are we talking about women who WORK in the games industry or just women PLAYING games in general?
If it's the former, and people are wondering why there aren't more women WORKING in the industry it all boils down to interest. Most women don't have an avid interest in video games or making them; either because they lack the proper skills or just don't care. How many women actually want to sit at a computer and write code all day?
This isn't just a B&W issue of women aren't welcome. There are a lot of reasons why you don't see women working in the industry besides PR and administration roles; they just don't want to because they have no interest, and there's nothing sexist about that. That's like wondering why you don't see more men working in beauty and healthcare professions. Men don't care about make-up and all that stuff, but just because they don't care about those jobs doesn't make those professions inherently sexist.
@Kravyn81 I think there's definitely some truth there, but there will always be sexism in any male driven industry (so pretty much every industry around). The point that needs to be made is that the gaming sector is subject to this but probably no more than any other so I don' understand why the focus is being pointed at this case in particular.
I think this could be an interesting show if Johnny didn't feel the need to act to act like such a cynical condescending hipster prick really.
Here's hopeing to positive change in the world, to be ignorant and continue is forgivable,... but you would have to have a dark heart to continue aftwards when ignorance is removed.
The reason there a more men in the gaming industry (both developers and gamers) is because a lot of games feature violence, high speed driving etc and men are just more accepting of it. The amount of times I heard a girl say "omg why did you kill him" or "why are you hunting that animal". Females these days find it more fun to watch chick flicks and "go clothes shopping"...EVERY WEEK where as most men do it when they need new clothes. And whats with the working conditions of women being neglected? I'm sure an employer is going to overlook skills and passion because she is missing a shlong. And all this stereotyping of women being all "loose" and seen as "objects" mostly never happens (except for games like rumble roses and DOA to an extenct) but always seem to overlook men being stereotyped as violent murderous, sadistic vilians and why is every crazy scientist in every game male? This whole sexisem shannanigan is blown way out of proportion, yeah a little kid said to a girl online "make me a sandwich" as if it hasen't been done outside of gaming.
@Hellsasin Yeah, this is part of a larger problem and I couldn't agree more. The thing you aren't getting is that girls aren't arguing over the fact that the video game industry is a male dominant one. The problem is that girls who want to be involved in the community feel discouraged to because: "make me a sandwich", "show me ur pix, u hot?" , "u play games cuz ur fat in RL and nobody would wana F*** u" and lets not forget "ur a girl??!! no wonder u suck so much, tebag her!!!"
Yeah that's the "iNteRnETz" for ya, but it happens WAY too often. The Gaming medium has gone from being a childhood pass-time to a yearly all ages blockbuster multimillion$ giant. Extreme sexist segregation isn't helping our image in the media as more than just a prepubescent cult.
Btw.... DOA and rumble roses are far from the only sexualization examples. Why do women in Skyrim wear breast plate that leaves room for bewbs. That's not really battle ideal. Why do female characters in wow need armor that leaves place for bare skin? Why did Cortana need to get a sexual overhaul for halo 4? She was just fine in the other games? Things that devs put in games to help sell but it's not helping the image of the industry as a whole.
I'm a dude but I kinda get now why Girl gamers complain.
Look I get it, sexism is bad, but I just buy the damn video games (expensive video games at that), there's nothing more I can do and nothing more I'm willing do to support this industry, I'm sorry. I hardly get my money's worth as it is. The comment stating gamers are bigoted petulant children hit the nail on the head and..."in fighting", if you will, isn't going to solve the problem. If more women get hired, if more women were responsible for platinum/greatest hits, that would keep the inane sexist chatter at bay. The sexist comments are made because the likely hood of a female reading/hearing the comments online are highly unlikely. Women play with their mics muted or under their boyfriend's gamer tag, and it it doesn't help the problem. It's the equivalent of a white person looking around the room, seeing only white people, and then proceeding to tell racist jokes.
@TacticaI "The likely hood of a female reading/hearing the comments online are highly unlikely." I just found it ironic reading this as a female. You have a good point with your last sentence, but they wouldn't be making a sexist comment to begin with if they weren't sexist. What may deter them, is being met with more disapproval. That's why I disagree to an extent that "in fighting" won't help. Sure it's annoying to hear or read, but if I have to see sexist comments, I'd prefer to see the sexist being bashed as well. There are more women on these sites than many guys assume, but they are much less likely to leave leave a comment or dare read the comment section when they can expect to find horrific comments and be hit with demeaning insulted if they dare to point out the offense. Sure, female gamers aren't helping to represent themselves as a demographic when they keep quiet or intentionally pass as male in online gaming, but you can't blame them for not wanting to put up with all that shit just to play a game.
although the "point is no less true", you can't compare segregation, genocide and stripping of rights to a mild sexism found on videogames.
hombreg1. The idea is that sexism, in any form, is unacceptable, and the "it's always been around" excuse is a common, bad excuse for many offensive practices.
hombreg1. No, but you can apply it to the high amount of sexism in games; which you clearly don't understand exists. While unrelated to your comment, the following applies to a couple that I've read: It isn't that we want more women making games. It's that we don't want to chase off the women who are interested. Too many highly qualified women have to fight far too hard to get a leg up in this industry,and that's really disheartening.
I'm not entirely sure if I got the point of the video or the issue behind the hashtag that started it, but if this is about why there are so few women working in the industry, I think it has much less to do with sexism and discrimination than it has to do with interest. Even if video games are becoming more mainstream and less geeky than they were, there are still few girls who are interested in games. I'm studying game development in college and I can tell you the guy:girl ratio in the student body is pretty extreme
@Soundaholic92 Very good point. I've been gaming for two and a half decades and the amount of female gamers around, both in real life and online are few and far between. This is why whenever a girl joins an online game all the guys go gaga over her because women in games are a rarity. Granted I'm talking about gamers instead of developers/publishers, but typically the majority of people in the gaming field are so because of their love for the genre, hence the same principle applies.
Of course with that in mind, in any male dominated profession, there will naturally be sexism, it goes with the territory. I've yet to work in a place where there isn't sexism of some sort, it's part of human nature and it is inescapable, however many rules and laws we have to curb said behavior. Naturally I hope it improves in gaming and elsewhere, but logically it is to be expected when joining a patriarchal, macho sub-culture. It's almost like complaining about sexism in the WWE....
As with any profession, it will take a long time for things to change, and chances are it probably won't until there are enough female gamers within the industry to make a noticeable difference. Slavery and segregation took centuries and then decades respectively to end, whereas sexism has been around since the dawn of mankind, so chances are it'll take awhile. It won't change until the few women who are in the industry make a stand to alter things for the betterment of their gender.
@Soundaholic92 tell that to mechanic engineering or microbiology...