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Too much for too little?

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  • Jan 18, 2013 1:18 pm GMT
    (Production cost + estimated lifecycle maintenance costs + shipping costs + losses expected due to retail markup) * intended profit margin / minimum expected sales = cost


    That's quite the equation. I love the multiple uses of 'expected' and 'estimated'. So, Blizzard could have spent an exhaustive amount of time coming up with educated guesses for your equation, or they could just sell the expansion based on what most new expansions sell for.

    Yeah, I don't know why they didn't do it your way.
  • Jan 21, 2013 12:44 pm GMT
    Synbios459 posted...
    Marikhen hit the nail on the head. For what we're getting it should be $20. MAX. The fact they have the gall to make a CE for $80 is absurd. I love getting the CE for the warcraft expansions but they offer a TON more content. Also, if you're like me and don't care for the campaign (especially since most RTS ones are basically lame) that JUST leaves some extra units and that's it.


    but see thats the problem. You're ignoring part of the product and arguing the price is too high. You want an a la carte menu, but that's not how it works. It's like buying a textbook and only using half of it for a class. You don't get to get half off just because you only want the first 10 chapters. There other chapters are there and you still have to pay for them.
    ---
    "I read this as a Bannanable Offense. I was like, what ksing with Soraka?"-Kirby 1207
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/CommanderKJK-1173/hero/60977
  • Jan 22, 2013 7:55 am GMT
    XcZeus3469 posted...
    Synbios459 posted...
    Marikhen hit the nail on the head. For what we're getting it should be $20. MAX. The fact they have the gall to make a CE for $80 is absurd. I love getting the CE for the warcraft expansions but they offer a TON more content. Also, if you're like me and don't care for the campaign (especially since most RTS ones are basically lame) that JUST leaves some extra units and that's it.


    but see thats the problem. You're ignoring part of the product and arguing the price is too high. You want an a la carte menu, but that's not how it works. It's like buying a textbook and only using half of it for a class. You don't get to get half off just because you only want the first 10 chapters. There other chapters are there and you still have to pay for them.


    People who demand the a la carte have gotten what they deserved - half released games that require $$ for DLC where if you want everything, you end up spending far more than $60. I like the model of buy a game - multiplayer is free forever (or included in the price, if you prefer) and small changes are frequent with large changes being an expansion pack.
  • Jan 22, 2013 10:39 am GMT
    wolverinerob79 posted...
    XcZeus3469 posted...
    Synbios459 posted...
    Marikhen hit the nail on the head. For what we're getting it should be $20. MAX. The fact they have the gall to make a CE for $80 is absurd. I love getting the CE for the warcraft expansions but they offer a TON more content. Also, if you're like me and don't care for the campaign (especially since most RTS ones are basically lame) that JUST leaves some extra units and that's it.


    but see thats the problem. You're ignoring part of the product and arguing the price is too high. You want an a la carte menu, but that's not how it works. It's like buying a textbook and only using half of it for a class. You don't get to get half off just because you only want the first 10 chapters. There other chapters are there and you still have to pay for them.


    People who demand the a la carte have gotten what they deserved - half released games that require $$ for DLC where if you want everything, you end up spending far more than $60. I like the model of buy a game - multiplayer is free forever (or included in the price, if you prefer) and small changes are frequent with large changes being an expansion pack.


    As do I. I had no problem ponying up the 60 bucks for WoL and I will have no problem shelling out the 40 for this game. I happen to enjoy the campaign because I like using blatantly broken units and seeing if I can hold off a 500 wave onslaught of enemy units.
    ---
    "I read this as a Bannanable Offense. I was like, what ksing with Soraka?"-Kirby 1207
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/CommanderKJK-1173/hero/60977
  • Jan 22, 2013 12:57 pm GMT
    Wow I don't even know where to begin...

    Marikhen posted...
    Just look at all the shoddy knockoffs, ports, and even "sequels" like Doom 2 and Descent 2 which used the same engine as the original game and just included a bunch of new maps that a lot of map makers could probably have knocked out in a couple months of work.


    Did you just call Doom 2 a shoddy "sequel"? Doom 2 is one of the most highly regarded fps games that has ever been made! Clearly, you are putting too much stock into the creation of the engine. Remember, an engine by itself is nothing. You have to actually make something with it. And that involves an enormous amount of work. You can't just poop out a bunch of maps and expect to end up with a legendary game.


    Marikhen posted...
    I sincerely hope you don't ever face a situation where you have to pay $400 for DLC that offers 50,000 hours of play time but only cost $300 to make


    This example is so outlandish it just makes your argument look silly. Seriously, $400 dollars, for any DLC, is absurd. But $40, on the other hand, is well within the realm of reason.


    Marikhen posted...
    Nothing I've seen of Heart of the Swarm indicates that Blizzard is putting fully 66% of the development effort, and money, into it as they put into Wings of Liberty so why should the retail price be 66% of Wing's of Liberty's?


    Let's see, the development team for Heart is almost double the size it was at the end of Liberty, and they have been working on Heart for almost 3 years constantly... I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Blizz is putting in limited development effort. You seem to think that creating maps, fmvs, new units, and doing new voice work and audio doesn't take that much work. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Why do you think most RTSs and MMOs fail these days? It's because so called "business people" think like you do, that they can put all this stuff together with minimal development, but all they put together is a giant pile of garbage. In reality, it takes SERIOUS work and talent to design and create the content for a successful computer game.


    Marikhen posted...
    To me paying $40 for this expansion, based on what I've seen out of it, or $10 for some character skin DLC is about the same as spending $75 for a wrench that ought to only cost $12.50 on the grounds that you'll get something like 5,000 hours of use out of it over the next 35 years.


    Your hyperbole here is *almost* as absurd as your hyperole from the previous thing I quoted. A $75 dollar wrench is absolutely stupid, and doesn't work to prove your point at all. And skins are overpriced on purpose. They are designed to appeal to people that have money to burn who want to feel special. Neither of these are analogous to the pricing for a computer game expansion. For me, a whole new 20 mission campaign, new fmvs, new battle.net, revamped multiplayer, new physics, resume from replay, etc. makes Heart almost as substantial of a release as Wings, and certainly worth $40.


    Marikhen posted...
    I suppose a thank you for being an intelligent poster is in order given that some of the people in this topic seem to make lukewarm tapioca look like a Harvard graduate.


    You overestimate your own intellect just as much as you underestimate the work it takes to create a good game.
  • Jan 23, 2013 4:19 am GMT
    Let's not forget those cinematics.... I'm pretty sure those aren't something that can be made cheaply...
  • Jan 23, 2013 1:28 pm GMT
    Dvorjakque posted...
    Did you just call Doom 2 a shoddy "sequel"?


    Given that the adjective "shoddy" was attached to the word "knockoffs" I'd have to say no. Believe what you wish though.

    Dvorjakque posted...
    Clearly, you are putting too much stock into the creation of the engine.

    Don't forget the art assets!

    Dvorjakque posted...
    This example is so outlandish it just makes your argument look silly.

    God forbid I try to be silly in such a silly topic.

    Dvorjakque posted...
    Seriously, $400 dollars, for any DLC, is absurd. But $40, on the other hand, is well within the realm of reason.

    Funny how you can pay unreasonable markups just because the prices seem reasonable, isn't it.

    Dvorjakque posted...
    Let's see, the development team for Heart is almost double the size it was at the end of Liberty,

    I'd be interested in reading your source information, especially if it also provides the numbers for the size of the development team at the start of Wings of Liberty.

    Dvorjakque posted...
    You seem to think that creating maps, fmvs, new units, and doing new voice work and audio doesn't take that much work. This couldn't be farther from the truth.

    And you seem to think that developers have to re-do everything from the ground up.

    Dvorjakque posted...
    A $75 dollar wrench is absolutely stupid, and doesn't work to prove your point at all.

    You just proved my point... >_>

    Dvorjakque posted...
    new battle.net,

    When did they announce that they were launching 3.0?
    ---
    Stop complaining. I could have done this more painfully. - Dryad from Sacred 2.
  • Jan 24, 2013 7:56 pm GMT
    Go Marikhen!

    My point is few people play RTS' for the campaign they play for multi and want to destroy. Best way to do that as in most RTS expansions is to add new races to play with.

    Quite honestly, for what they are doing $20 does seem like a good deal. Hell, I can find plenty games for the same price in just about every genre that has more content.

    You bring up the fact that making this or that costs time and money, which is true, but think how before DLC became popular devs would add such things in a patch for free, especially for FPS games. Even looking at RTS expansions of the time they offered FAR more.
    ---
    White 2 FC: 0863-1151-3669
  • Jan 25, 2013 4:50 pm GMT
    Synbios459 posted...
    From: wolverinerob79 | Posted: 12/31/2012 12:08:15 PM | #014
    mgsfreak1688 posted...
    Sorry you feel that way. For the amount of time I'll be putting into the game, I think the price is just about right.


    THIS!

    If you're a casual player for whom SC2 is just another game, I actually highly encourage you to just pass along - I agree it's far too much money for what you would get from it. However, if (like me) SC2 is where more than 50% of your gaming time is spent, the price is a bargain.

    Ughhh it's people like you that allow there to be a new CoD every year with minimal updates, yet even CoD games come with significantly more content.


    Lets see, what do we typically get with a new call of duty that costs $60 bucks about every 6 months to a year?

    New campaign/story. Although it is a significantly shorter campaign than Starcraft 1, Brood War, 2 and the assumed upcoming expansion.

    New weapons, maps and an update to the current mechanics but typically no main concept changes.

    What are we going to get with the upcoming expansion priced at 2/3rds the price of $40.

    New campaign/story. Longer than any COD campaign.

    New units and items, maps and an update to the current mechanics but no huge changes to the over-all concept.

    Annnnd your done.

    Seriously feel free to move over if your poor and can't afford $40 bucks, you probably should be saving your money if that price is too steep for you. Video games are expensive, if your a child who's parents pay for everything you can't always get what you want, or better yet go work for it. If your an adult who can't afford video gaming as a hobby you probably should worry more about your bills and living expenses. End of story.
    ---
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  • Jan 27, 2013 7:53 am GMT
    Synbios459 posted...
    I know you get some new units and multiplayer changes, as well as missions for the zerg but there aren't any new races. $40 I think is too much for just the above IMO.


    Eh its an entire campaign rivaling WoL, plus all that you listed for $40
    ---
    PSO- 09
  • Jan 27, 2013 10:08 am GMT
    Synbios459 posted...


    Quite honestly, for what they are doing $20 does seem like a good deal. Hell, I can find plenty games for the same price in just about every genre that has more content.


    Than why are you even here? You're just trolling (which you're and you're baiting a lot of people)
    ---
    PSO- 09
  • Jan 27, 2013 3:16 pm GMT
    nhat posted...
    Synbios459 posted...


    Quite honestly, for what they are doing $20 does seem like a good deal. Hell, I can find plenty games for the same price in just about every genre that has more content.


    Than why are you even here? You're just trolling (which you're and you're baiting a lot of people)


    Really? He's providing a well-thought out argument and such, including the reasons for having more for less. He's not even throwing grade-schools insults out there.
    ---
    Would you kindly stop trying to be cute on the internet?
  • Jan 27, 2013 4:05 pm GMT
    "there arent any new races"

    lol.

    quality line right there.
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  • Jan 28, 2013 7:46 am GMT
    Jwargod posted...
    nhat posted...
    Synbios459 posted...


    Quite honestly, for what they are doing $20 does seem like a good deal. Hell, I can find plenty games for the same price in just about every genre that has more content.


    Than why are you even here? You're just trolling (which you're and you're baiting a lot of people)


    Really? He's providing a well-thought out argument and such, including the reasons for having more for less. He's not even throwing grade-schools insults out there.


    What's even sad is that the TC is mocking Marikhen so badly, Marikhen doesn't even know he's being pwned..... ultimate burn.
    ---
    PSO- 09
  • Jan 30, 2013 3:11 pm GMT
    Synbios459 posted...
    Go Marikhen!

    My point is few people play RTS' for the campaign they play for multi and want to destroy. Best way to do that as in most RTS expansions is to add new races to play with.

    Quite honestly, for what they are doing $20 does seem like a good deal. Hell, I can find plenty games for the same price in just about every genre that has more content.

    You bring up the fact that making this or that costs time and money, which is true, but think how before DLC became popular devs would add such things in a patch for free, especially for FPS games. Even looking at RTS expansions of the time they offered FAR more.


    I wish I knew where the interview was at this point, but I believe Blizzard has said exactly the opposite. The majority of the users only play the campaign and then stop playing all together. It's the dedicated minority that play for months and years in multiplayer.

    I initially bought WoL for just the campaign. However, I got into the multiplayer and custom games and I've been playing it ever since. It's one of the videogames I've gotten the most mileage out of.

    I'm actually kinda disappointed at the direction they're taking the campaign in HotS. Making it more like Warcraft 3 and shortening the number of missions. That's weak IMO, but regardless I plan on getting HotS. If it's half as good as WoL it will still be an excellent game IMO. Well worth $40 to me. It would actually be more interesting to ask what the maximum amount is someone would pay for HotS. I'd probably go over $100.
  • Jan 31, 2013 2:35 pm GMT
    FakeTJ posted...

    I initially bought WoL for just the campaign. However, I got into the multiplayer and custom games and I've been playing it ever since. It's one of the videogames I've gotten the most mileage out of.

    I'm actually kinda disappointed at the direction they're taking the campaign in HotS. Making it more like Warcraft 3 and shortening the number of missions. That's weak IMO, but regardless I plan on getting HotS. If it's half as good as WoL it will still be an excellent game IMO. Well worth $40 to me. It would actually be more interesting to ask what the maximum amount is someone would pay for HotS. I'd probably go over $100.


    Spooky - I agree with this very much! I have no stats on how many people picked up WoL for why and how many are left, but I have loved this game. I've been a long standing RTS player, but I always just played for Single Player mostly and then continued to play comp stomps, custom maps (yay TDs!), etc.

    WoL finally got me into multiplayer and it's never let go! I used to play lots of 4v4s (especially monobattles) and 1v1s, but now I exclusively play 2v2s with my wife. When HoTS comes out, I'll be playing the campaign (probably a couple times) and will enjoy more multiplayer in 2v2s. I realize there's less balance there, but it's great fun if you play with people in the same room.

    Am I also the only one excited about the experience system? I love seeing (albeit tiny) progress to goals with every single game. I don't know if it's changed since the last time I saw it (I am not pre-ordering, so I don't have the beta, but I've watched some things on twitch), but little bits of progress seems like a lot of fun for an achievement chaser :-D.
  • Jan 31, 2013 7:13 pm GMT
    They could split up Heart of the Swarm multiplayer and singleplayer aspects -- pay 20 dollars for Multi or pay 20 dollars for SP. Or 35 dollars or something for both. I think everyone here would be more willing to buy it, because I don't think not purchasing it has anything to do with production value or anything - 40 dollars is just a lot of money to throw around after you've already paid 50 - 60 dollars for the game itself.
    ---
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  • Feb 1, 2013 7:53 am GMT
    Dr4G0nZ posted...
    They could split up Heart of the Swarm multiplayer and singleplayer aspects -- pay 20 dollars for Multi or pay 20 dollars for SP. Or 35 dollars or something for both. I think everyone here would be more willing to buy it, because I don't think not purchasing it has anything to do with production value or anything - 40 dollars is just a lot of money to throw around after you've already paid 50 - 60 dollars for the game itself.


    $40 is not a lot of money to everyone. It really depends on their target market. I think they're targeting an older gamer crowd who probably can drop $40 without thinking too much about it.
  • Feb 1, 2013 3:10 pm GMT
    I know you get some new units and multiplayer changes, as well as missions for the zerg but there aren't any new races. $40 I think is too much for just the above IMO.

    You know, I do see where you are coming from. But it really just boils down to economics; most people are going to pay $40 for that. I know I for sure will, simply because I know I'll get my money's worth. More or less they are going to charge whatever gives them the highest profit margin, and I'm sure their stockholders appreciate that.
  • Feb 3, 2013 1:31 am GMT
    A lot of you have great arguments but lets not forget something we have been taking for granted SINCE SC1..... Battle.net. Maintenance for the FREE online multi player support is factored into the costs. Pay 50$ plus 40$ for the ability to play the same game online with constant updates and maintenance 15+ years from now.
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