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Dec 31, 2012 1:18 am GMT
Sorry if old, but a worthy read:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vanquish-blog-entryIt goes deep into the fact that large amounts of content aren't always a good thing when compared to simply a great designed game that has tons of replay value due to it's gameplay mechanics. Go read it, you'll love it.
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PSN: Royta15
www.youtube.com/royta15
Jan 2, 2013 3:59 pm GMT
"It's a game that practically begs you to play and replay it because the reward isn't in completing it, it's in experiencing it."
Pretty much said it all. Great article!
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And this time!
Jan 6, 2013 9:08 pm GMT
That was indeed a good article, I missed it when it was originally posted. Would have been good reference to use during this game's first few months of release. Got so annoying when critics kept pulling the short-playtime card and some potential buyers just ate that up.
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The Storm Is About To Rage.....
Jan 7, 2013 5:13 am GMT
I for one appreciate the 'precise' timer that P* included. It doesn't include load times, deaths/retries, cutscenes, and I think even the downtime in-between missions. It's a shame it contributed to the negative perception of the game being too short.
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Jan 7, 2013 2:46 pm GMT
i've said it before
if anything, this game is too long lol
how much more tightly designed and memorable do you think the game would have been if it went from ~4 hours or however long it is down to half of that? i think it'd be pretty significant
but i dunno maybe i've just been playing too much contra lol
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"You're not a player until you've gamed a girl with a Wii. Or Kingdom Hearts." - Ray
(>-'.'-)> Kirby rules you.
Jan 8, 2013 10:32 am GMT
Just to play devil's advocate here - I generally enjoyed the game and hold it in high regard, but there's something about it that makes me think "something's missing here." It makes me think that while the game is above-average/high-tier, it's not top-tier.
Part of it is the lack of extras, unlockables, upgrades, and other content, but that's not entirely it. Then I came across something while browsing the interwebs which takes the words right out of my mouth.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38950696&postcount=159---
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Jan 8, 2013 12:56 pm GMT
Honestly, I don't agree with that article. I've just played the game again after almost a year and it still holds up. The only thing that I found to be dull and unoriginal was indeed the stealth segment which was stupid and felt out of place. But for the rest, each confrontation was unique due to its setup and the unique weapon selection (especially the LFE) make for one hell of an experimentation ride, as does the pretty inventive melee.
What I too consider to be the game's biggest flaw is unlocks. I'm not talking about more content and levels, just costumes, artwork, soundtrack, max ARS suit that you get during the final boss but now for the entire game, NG+, etc. These aren't things that take weeks to design. It's just a shame it's not in there.
Content wise there's more then enough with God Hard and the Challenges to sink your teeth into. And it doesn't drag on, like Play_Hangman said; which is a good thing. Don't get me wrong I love God Hand on PS2, it's an amazing game. But it's too long for it's own good. By the time I reach chapter 7 I'm annoyed and just want my HARD KMS to be over with. Hell, that game took a major drop after chapter 1 in my honest opinion, which was the best chapter in the game.
Just like DMC3, which in my opinion, was god awful outside of Chapter 1,2 and final.
The game is still in my eyes the second best game ever made by man kind, Metroid Prime holding the candle still at number one, but it could have been more complete.
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PSN: Royta15
www.youtube.com/royta15
Jan 8, 2013 1:18 pm GMT
I don't think it's fair to boil down the combat to boost and slow-mo. Sure, the game is built around that concept, but it's not like you can only do the one thing with those features.
That poster mentions missed opportunities, like the Viewtiful Joe missile thing, while ignoring what you can do in Vanquish in that sense. For example, you can slow-mo and shoot a Romanov's missile, causing insane damage if you catch the missile near his cannon -- or other enemies... why wouldn't that count?
I don't buy that you do the same thing over and over. It's true that you may shoot mindlessly and (probably) win, but each enemy has an optimal strategy or two. If you fight BIAs and Romanovs the exact same way as you fight RIs, well, you kinda deserve the tedium... >.>
The melee criticism is okay, but 20-30% free damage to bosses is a pretty good deal in my book... *shrug* You also don't have to use melee exclusively for damage, you can rocket kick walls to get a better AR view, or to get an insta stun on some enemies. IMO, we shouldn't look at melee like it's supposed to be your main form of attack.
But I mean, when the person says everything in the game is boring and didn't impress him, it's kinda hard to argue. We can't undo his experience. Maybe that is a flaw, after all, not grabbing the player's attention the way they truly intended.
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And this time!
Jan 8, 2013 3:58 pm GMT
I don't buy that you do the same thing over and over. It's true that you may shoot mindlessly and (probably) win, but each enemy has an optimal strategy or two. If you fight BIAs and Romanovs the exact same way as you fight RIs, well, you kinda deserve the tedium... >.>
But I mean, when the person says everything in the game is boring and didn't impress him, it's kinda hard to argue. We can't undo his experience. Maybe that is a flaw, after all, not grabbing the player's attention the way they truly intended.
I've seen this attitude countless times before. And once again, we just have to look at Bayonetta which is the epitome of variety in my opinion yet I can play the whole game spamming Shuraba and Kilgore.
Now if I go to the Bayonetta boards here or whereever and claim the game is limited, failed to impress, no variety, and hear them howl.
Vanquish does have flaws, but most of that article is nonsense. Once again we see the complaints about melee and running out of meter. No depth? You've got to be kidding.
It;s just another angry review based on that persons exp who is passing it off as fact. This is why good games and companies go down.
Jan 9, 2013 12:38 am GMT
I'll read it later. Thanks for sharing.
Jan 9, 2013 10:01 am GMT
no i know what you mean yarrmateys, i hold the game in high regard but it's not quite at the highest tier for me
i was misread actually--i think the main campaign is actually too long, i think the game would have felt even faster and individual pieces would have been more memorable if it were shaved down some
i think my biggest problem with the game is that some levels are really exciting and pose a lot of danger to the player but there's a lot of "downtime" and you'll go through some part that's surprisingly easy for no reason, that's not even mentioning all the out-of-place typical-third-person-shooter sections like that weird stealth section and turrets
if the whole game were like a 4-2 or 5-3 or challenge 6 then it would be the very best tps i could think of, maybe the best game ever, but it's not really like that, i remember being pushed to the limits by these levels and a few other levels the first time i went through god hard and the game really should do it more often
when i go through some of the coolest levels, it feels like P* was "holding back" because they thought the game would be too hard or something, i especially feel this way when i go through the challenges
i guess i can sort of see what that neogaf guy means but i think the melee is mostly fine
otoh, i would definitely be interested in what it would be like if the melee worked differently, what if instead of it doing tons of damage and taking away all your meter, it does 1/3rd the damage and takes 1/3rd of the meter? what if you had combos? what if you could deflect things with your melee? what if you could throw enemies at each other lol?
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"You're not a player until you've gamed a girl with a Wii. Or Kingdom Hearts." - Ray
(>-'.'-)> Kirby rules you.
Jan 9, 2013 10:34 am GMT
The upside with it draining the complete bar is that you know exactly how far it will go. If it drains 1/3 you'll never be exactly sure on how much it'll drain. Will it drain completely? Or will you have a bit left? It'll become a guessing game. Like in God Hand where you were never really sure on how long your God mode lasted.
Here you atleast know, I melee? Them bam, empty meter.
I like it this way just fine, the damage too. It's this super attack that has a high risk to it. It absolutely demolishes enemies but leaves you vulnerable. It's perfectly balanced imo.
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PSN: Royta15
www.youtube.com/royta15
Jan 9, 2013 2:48 pm GMT
The upside with it draining the complete bar is that you know exactly how far it will go. If it drains 1/3 you'll never be exactly sure on how much it'll drain. Will it drain completely? Or will you have a bit left? It'll become a guessing game.
A segmented bar would work like Onimusha DoD where you hold the button down to charge the power level. The screen freezes while charging so there's no threat to the player.
In Vanquish that method for starting it up wouldn't really fit but you can see the idea. A lot of games have this kind of meter.
But like you said it's perfectly balanced as it is. Changing it wouldn't necessarily make it better, just different. Sure a segmented bar, no or at least short overheat would make it easier, but all those complaints stem from not knowing how to manage it.
Jan 10, 2013 9:41 am GMT
Guys, don't you get it? Did you not hear Cliffy LAY DOWN THE LAW?
Vanquish should be more like Gears, where you sit in cover playing whack-a-mole for 95% of the game and there's GLORIOUS MULTIPLAYER, where you can be called every racial slur on the planet by 10 year olds while playing as a 300 lb. clunkster who appears to be missing a chromosome or two. Is that great entertainment or what?
Don't you realize how much better Vanquish would be if it was like
that?
Just curious, how old are you fellows? I have a theory that most fans of stuff like the Platinum games catalogue, Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden grew up on NES games. I did- I'm 29.
PS- Fired this up the other day and finished challenges 1 and 2 for the first time. Took me a few hours, I'm super-rusty.
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"The act of treachery is an art, but the traitor himself is a piece of ****." - Mike Tyson
Jan 10, 2013 9:37 am GMT
I'm from the dying days of the SNES era, 23 myself. By the time I finally got my SNES the N64 had just been released. So got plenty of games cheap. But my hardcore-ness comes mostly from lack of money. I got 10 gulden (about 3 dollars) a month, and games cost around 100-150 gulden back in the day. So when I got a game, no matter how hard, I went to 100% it as I had nothing else to play.
The second I was 11 I got a job and have been working ever since (in combination with school ofc.). But that completionist habbit was just shoved into me in my youth by that money thing, and it never left.
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PSN: Royta15
www.youtube.com/royta15
Jan 10, 2013 1:52 pm GMT
I'm 29, been gaming since the NES. I'm an old-school gamer, still play the classics quite often.
The arcade-y quality of Vanquish (on top of P* and Mikami's involvement) is what made me interested in the game. Seems rare these days to find a game where your goal isn't to build/level up a character and do side-quests until they're ridiculously powerful. Don't get me wrong, those games can be great, it's just that, at that moment, I was looking for something more focused on the gameplay mechanics.
I'm not one of those elitist types who think games these days are terrible. Dark Souls is probably my favorite game of the generation, along with Super Mario Galaxy and Vanquish. Arkham Asylum/City are both up there too IMO.
The big shooters don't interest me much for the most part, though...
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And this time!
Jan 10, 2013 9:00 pm GMT
This game is just the best example of having PERFECT gameplay that doesn't need any unlockables. Seriously I have finished it so many times, its ridiculous.
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"Do you feel it, Zach? My coffee warned me about it." - Francis York Morgan.
Deadly Premonition: Director's Cut, Q1 2013. Welcome back Zach.
Jan 10, 2013 9:32 pm GMT
Da Dood posted...
I'm not one of those elitist types who think games these days are terrible. Dark Souls is probably my favorite game of the generation, along with Super Mario Galaxy and Vanquish. Arkham Asylum/City are both up there too IMO.
Well, just so I'm not misunderstood- I was laying it on a little thick with the Gears comments, but the whole 'it doesn't have MP' argument against a really well-made game
really bothers me.
I like plenty of modern games, there are several genres I'm a fan of - sci fi shooters like the Crysis and Halo games, technical melee stuff like DMC1 and 3, the Ninja Gaiden series, etc., RPGs ranging from Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story to Mass Effect, strategy games like XCOM or SimCity, etc. I used to play flight simulators like Microsoft Flight Simulator or Microprose's F117A a ton.
I just find that today's market seems quick to push games towards the popular mold- "There's gun's in this game? Well then it MUST have Team Deathmatch, right?" And to see a respected developer, such as the guy behind Gears of War (which I've found to be terribly over-rated, but whatever...), fall into the same nonsense, was disappointing.
It's one thing when a point-and-click adventure like The Walking Dead is recognized, but when a game like Vanquish offers a more subtle diversion from the mainstream it tends to be misunderstood.
I guess my thinking is that gamers that were around for at least a wee bit of the old-school stuff can appreciate when a game is literally a modern NES game- like Vanquish, which may as well be the new-age Contra.
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"The act of treachery is an art, but the traitor himself is a piece of ****." - Mike Tyson
Jan 10, 2013 11:55 pm GMT
^ditto. While I like old games I love new games a lot too. My favorite era (and console) is the Gamecube. Simply loved everything on that console and had a great time playing on it. Most games I love from this and the previous gen are Metroid Prime, Demon's Souls, Resident Evil series, CoD Black Ops, DMC series, NGS2, Mass Effect, Batman and Mirror's Edge to name some.
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PSN: Royta15
www.youtube.com/royta15
Jan 11, 2013 3:38 am GMT
Murphy, I understood, that wasn't directed at you. =) I just said that because of the way people usually complain about retro/arcade gaming. As if you can't enjoy both classic and modern gaming.
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And this time!
Catherine (PS3)
Outland (PS3)
SSX (PS3)
Starhawk (PS3)
Dishonored (PS3)
The Darkness (PS3)
